Trousers
Frank, do you have any thoughts on the direction of pleats, i.e. forward facing or otherwise? Does it matter?
Either way. Which ever you like. Pleats should be cut to fall on the plumb line. Straight down the center like L.deJong. Also, I do find that for guys with a more ample midsection, outward pleats fall better. Pleated and fuller pants should also be dressed.
The trousers look very good.
Frank, do you mean dress should be taken (from the dress side)?
From my observations, excessive fullness can be present in the dress side of full, pleated trousers, particulary with forward pleats, when dress is not taken. So, not only tight unpleated trousers need dress, but also full pleated trousers, but for somewhat different reasons: in tigh trousers the dress/undress relation is the result of a need for fullness, and in full pleated trousers, the result of a need to eliminate excessive fullness. Would this be right?
Frank, do you mean dress should be taken (from the dress side)?
From my observations, excessive fullness can be present in the dress side of full, pleated trousers, particulary with forward pleats, when dress is not taken. So, not only tight unpleated trousers need dress, but also full pleated trousers, but for somewhat different reasons: in tigh trousers the dress/undress relation is the result of a need for fullness, and in full pleated trousers, the result of a need to eliminate excessive fullness. Would this be right?
Well, here’s how I see it. Dress isn’t taken. Dress is given. Adding room on one side , the side your acorns dip to, allows the crotch seam to slide up the other side of your acorns when you sit or walk or climb the stairs. Some Tailors TAKE cloth to pull the fly over. WRONG. That’s wrong. What do you do when you dress. You put things on. You add.
The proper rise and crotch and dress acts like a high armhole in that it gives freedom of movement. Think of a low armhole pulling the whole coat when you move. Dressing allows the seam to slide up the side of your chestnuts when you climb the stairs or sit down..instead of hitting your balls right in the middle. Both loose and fitted trousers should be dressed. Tailors have their opinion on this but mine is right.
The proper rise and crotch and dress acts like a high armhole in that it gives freedom of movement. Think of a low armhole pulling the whole coat when you move. Dressing allows the seam to slide up the side of your chestnuts when you climb the stairs or sit down..instead of hitting your balls right in the middle. Both loose and fitted trousers should be dressed. Tailors have their opinion on this but mine is right.
I posted on Instagram at #thefrankshattuck how the dress works.
Thank you, Frank. Your explanation is absolutely clear.
I'm not a tailor, but I had no doubt dress had to be given, and how it is given (from a layman point of view).
What I didn't understand so completely, before your explanation, was the whole mechanics involved in the crotch. I was familiar with the armhole analogy (because you had made that analogy in another post). What your explanation makes clear is that its not just like a high armhole, but also something like a small armhole and a big sleave.
Thank you again, Frank. You are an invaluable authority. I hope you didn't feel my question was impertinent.
I'm not a tailor, but I had no doubt dress had to be given, and how it is given (from a layman point of view).
What I didn't understand so completely, before your explanation, was the whole mechanics involved in the crotch. I was familiar with the armhole analogy (because you had made that analogy in another post). What your explanation makes clear is that its not just like a high armhole, but also something like a small armhole and a big sleave.
Thank you again, Frank. You are an invaluable authority. I hope you didn't feel my question was impertinent.
I also understand now why there is no difference, regarding dress, between full and fitted trousers. Which was my initial doubt.
NES, I can’t even spell impertinent. Think about the mechanics of it NES..the crotch seem goes up the one side and there’s built in room in the other side for things to comfortably rest. So much more comfortable movement. And the crotch seem doesn’t pull up the middle. Old pant patterns had the dress built in.
What I initially had not understood was how dressing a trouser distributes space, not vertically (like a high crotch) but horizontally, in a way that allows for comfortable movement. I was only seeing the advantages of a high crotch for movement, and dressing as just creating additional room in one side. In reality, the two seem to be connected, and the problem solved by dressing seems to be more how to create room where room is needed, maintaining the crotch close to the body to allow for movement. I have seen some of the old patterns you refer, Frank, and all my bespoke trousers are dressed. But how it really works seems to be knowledge transmitted orally from tailor to tailor, although this knowledge is built into the patterns. The patterns themselves just give to one side and take to the other.
In the past, patrons didn't have to worry about this, but now this kind of knowledge is slowly disappearing, and the old patterns can become archaeological artifacts, and not part of a leaving art.
In the past, patrons didn't have to worry about this, but now this kind of knowledge is slowly disappearing, and the old patterns can become archaeological artifacts, and not part of a leaving art.
On some old patterns the dress was added and then it was trimmed from the side that didn’t need it. On others it was not added so the tailor would add it. .....That the crotch seem can slide comfortably up the side .....this is where the high armhole effect comes into play. Like many things It’s simple once you understand it.
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