Tailored Stories: An Oral History of Savile Row

[davidhuh]

But I have to add that my easiest and most creative collaboration is with one of the bigger tailoring houses in Western Europe. 

Your “bigger tailoring house” started off as a small independent tailor who refused to give in to mediocrity. Back in 2003, on the old Yahoo groups London Lounge, we were already posting pictures of suits made by Edwin Deboise and Tom Mahon, two renegades who ditched London because of its suffocating costs structure and went up to Cumbria so they could continue to take the time to make bench made clothing in “the old A&S way.”

Both of these guys became LL members and contributed greatly to our knowledge back then. And smart LL members rewarded both tailors with their custom and their operations grew because these two stuck to their guns and refused to betray their craft.

Now that Edwin has taken over English Cut his business is even bigger, but he is and will continue to deliver according to the canons of his craft. True quality is not a fetich, its a winning business model. Edwin and Matthew are the proof point.

Dear Michael,

thank you for your good reply. I was concerned that the discussion in this thread was taking an unfortunate direction towards sentimental tailoring orthodoxy. And I wanted to share my experience with very different tailors (different in character, style and approach to the craft), which somehow all worked very well for me. Not that I'm particularly fond of trying out 30 tailors, in the contrary. I like to stick to my craftsmen if things go well, and they always did go well so far - touch wood

So David, unless you are talking about some other “bigger tailoring house in Western Europe”, you have added your testimony (and fetish ) to the others who militate in support of traditional benchmade tailoring.

I was talking of a different tailoring house, more South of Rome actually . What they delivered without long discussions or explanations is sublime and effortless in every aspect. Some might ask why I didn't stop with the others - simply because I'm loyal to them, and I get something different which I also like and appreciate. Working with them takes more effort on my side, but that's also part of the fun.

It is too early for me to comment on Steed. But I'm confident and look forward to a long lasting collaboration. And I always praised Mr Mahon's work for me - it is sad indeed what happened with English Cut.

I do absolutely agree with the importance of interviewing tailors to know if there is a right fit and then to build a good working relationship. I am probably a bit over a million times repeating this seemingly incomprehensible wisdom.

What may be missing in many men today is understanding craft and craftsmen. We live in an industrialised world transforming itself to digital quickly - craft is a far older "crime" . I just had a reminder today, visiting the arms and armour section at the Wallace collection after a meeting in the neighbourhood. A part from the exceptional ottoman and Mughal swords, they have a more humble display of personal table knives made for noble men in the 15th, 16th century. Simple, plain knives without decoration, but beautifully crafted, full of charm and character. Watching these knives reminded me that it requires a very different mindset to appreciate such objects, and when most spend their day behind a computer screen or playing with a smart phone, they may forget to switch their mind when seeing their tailor.

In your reply to Frans, you mention the big SR houses. I have no experience with them. But who am I to blame them? More than half of their business is coming from overseas and mainly the US. They adapt to their clientele, it would be suicidal not to do so. You see the same type of customers when you walk into the Ritz in Paris or the Palace in St. Moritz or Gstaad. Among other things, they also want a suit from Savile Row, and they want a known label inside...

Cheers, David

[alden]

I was concerned that the discussion in this thread was taking an unfortunate direction towards sentimental tailoring orthodoxy

David,

I am not sure what “sentimental”has to do with tailoring it’s simple physics and economics.

You do an operation by hand or you do it by machine. It costs 10x to do it by hand, it costs x to do it by machine. If you create and manipulate a pattern to a mans body it costs 10x, if you use a block it costs x. No sentiment so far, is there?

If you are clever you can charge 10x but deliver what only cost you x. But if you are an honest craftsman you charge 10x for what cost 10x. What a pity. I kind of feel sorry for the craftsman at this point, is that sentimental?

“F for Fake”, that's how Orson Welles put it in his witty film about counterfeit reality in a counterfeit world, one that so clearly describes our age. His entertaining story is about Elmyr de Cory the greatest living forger of Picasso’s works, his forgeries, and the rank gullibility of those conned by forgeries: people with galleries full of de Corys, who thought they were Picassos, who have real trouble coming to terms with the illusion and continue to defend their de Corys as Picassos. Its a delightful study of human nature. And de Corys would have been a good business as well as great fun relieving non conoscenti of their largesse, but counterfeiting Picassos is a criminal offense. And Monsieur de Cory wound up in jail. Not a very sentimental end for the man either as it turns out.

Well there are forgers forging counterfeit products everyday in the sartorial world. No sentiment here, the concern is purely economic. If you are paying "10x" or $7,000 for a suit, make sure you are not getting a forgery worth $700. But just saying such a thing provokes howling in the streets. “It looks fine enough for me!” Just like those who said their de Corys, the ones they paid a fortune for, looked fine enough on their walls. Its a riot. And it would be fun expect that people get hurt financially not sentimentally.

David, we have lived in an industrial world for well over a century now. And industrial or digital, the counterfeit world and reality has always existed and affects those who are unaware of it, blind to it and those who profit by it.
Caveat Emptor is not the latest Facebook jingle.

Our job in the LL is to separate the de Corys from the Picassos, and we just saw a beautiful Picasso posted here on the LL, so that those who do not want to be "had" can understand the difference between Fakery and Art, and make their choice in complete clarity.

Very few men are so poorly shaped or unusually shaped that they "need" the full Monty benchmade solution. Most can get by with much less and they can get by paying much less as well. But the men who need or want the full benchmade service should get it and not be cheated. And the guys who don't need it or want it should not be relieved of an inordinate amount of their finances to get it. Pay for what you get. That is my not very sentimental point.

And, as you know, it has nothing to do with big tailoring shops versus small ones. There are large operations run with great integrity and small ones as corrupt as rotting fruit.

I see no harm in men relating the stories of their successes and paying hommage to craftsmen who are competent, talented and honest. Such harmless stories do not create an "orthodoxy" in my view. They educate and demystify. Yes, mystery is 'orthodoxy's" great ally, not clarity.

What may be missing in many men today is understanding craft and craftsmen.

Yes sir. That is what I believe as well. Transparency and education is good for consumers and craftsmen alike. And we need more transparency, more consumer education these days and not less of it. And we in the LL are well positioned to supply what is missing in men's understanding of craft.

Cheers

Note: Here is Welles in his eulogy for or celebration of the nameless craftsmen who offered us Art that endures ...from "F for Fake": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p67d9F9nW2Y

[alden]

Transparency is good for consumers and craftsmen alike. And we need more transparency these days and not less of it.

Guys, I am going to be writing more about this in the near future.

As you have seen I have created a new “Benchmade” forum dedicated to traditional tailoring. This more focussed discussion is a needed addition to the general “custom clothing” discussion in the Bespoke forum. And as you may have noticed I am in the process of moving posts related to traditional tailoring into the new forum, so there is a more clarity and more opportunity for young people and newcomers to access quality information.

The Bespoke forum will remain as a resource for every other kind of “custom clothing” service and it will focus on such things as MTM, special orders and the like. In the future please orient your posts to the appropriate forum so I do not have to move them. And I will move them

I would also like to say that I will continue to be available to answer any of your questions about tailoring, your next project or anything that will prepare you to be a better consumer of Sartorial products of all kinds. If I do not know the answer to your questions, there are others here who do. So do continue to write me at llclothclub at yahoo dot com. I may not be able to get back to you immediately as my schedule is bursting at the seams as usual, but I will get back to you.

Stay tuned….

Cheers

[davidhuh]

The Bespoke forum will remain as a resource for every other kind of “custom clothing” service and it will focus on such things as MTM, special orders and the like. In the future please orient your posts to the appropriate forum so I do not have to move them. And I will move them

Dear Michael,

hold on a minute, please - to me and probably many, bespoke is bespoke and "benchmade" as you call it, not MTM. I have little motivation discussing MTM on the London Lounge... There are other forums catering for this need. Sorry for being a bit blunt.

Cheers, David

[Frans]

Also, I want to say again , all the old world handwork and style is wasted if the pattern does not work. I would rather have a well fitted ,well balanced MTM than an off balance, I'll fitting coat with a hiking front from SR or off SR.

The pictures from instagram are beautiful and show the craft, but one has to see them on the wearer. You're right, thanks

[old henry]

Franz,

All I want for the guys on the LL is a good, balanced , manipulated to the individual, pattern. This was understood without saying a word ten years ago. The customer could decide lapels, coat length, haircloth, no pad, Lesser, Minnis, Harrison's. That is the fun of getting a Benchmade suit. That is the input the customer should be enjoying. It shouldn't have to be the customer's job to think about a balanced , fitted , well manipulated pattern. That is the basic job of the tailor. Making a good pattern separates the average coat maker from the maestro. But now days , unfortunately, I see that customers must be very careful. Must be very educated and aware.

[old henry]

See above edit