New English Bespoke Shirtmaker: Wil Whiting

[alden]

Therefore, I associate Jermyn St shirts with lots of tie space and Italian shirts with the opposite.

Yes, though in Naples, in my experience, tie space is the norm because men their wear large knots.

[Concordia]

Untitled by Bond Beyond, on Flickr

BB

Interesting suit.

[Concordia]

A supposed quirk from President Reagan (relayed by Simon at T&A): from his film years, he learned the importance of a perfect collar. So he had his shirts made without a collar button. He put the tie on and tightened it-- thereby leaving a correct fit on the collar with no gaps or excessive tightness.

[Mark Seitelman]

* * *

The rest of the look is composed, as always, with very beautiful clothes. What is missing is the man. I have never seen a full photo of the Man nor have I had the pleasure to meet him. Maybe some of you have. And as you all know I am much more interested in the Man than in his clothes. Or rather, I am only interested in the clothes in the context of the Man. What we see are stunning clothes arranged into mostly great looks, but they could be clothes on a tailor's dummy. Where is the man who animates them, or not?

Cheers

Agreed! And well said.

The headless shots are very dead looking.

Are these fellows in a witness protection program?

[uppercase]

But who wants their face splashed all over the nets??
I wouldn’t.

Good enough in my book that Vox takes the time and trouble to post some photos of fantastic bespoke clothes being made for him by Edwin at Steed and Mina at NSM, even without a head.

And other interesting photos as well.

#tinitime

[couch]

If I have understood your point, I think I already know the answer to this, but what then do you make of Voxsartoria's collars?

Given, as Michael points out, that most photos of Vox don't give a clear idea of the shape of his face (though it seems not to be especially long or pointed in the chin), one can still note a few things about his recent shirts. His NSM collars have a higher-than-RTW stand in the band both at the rear and in front (his Mercer OCBDs are a bit lower in front); the collar leaves are long enough that the points are always covered by the jackets; and the collars fit around his neck beautifully, without gaps or pulling. Some photos make the spread look a bit wider than in others, but in some it looks quite moderate:

My guess is that it's the angle of the photo that changes, not the collar configuration (in the last few years). In any case, it's instructive that when the height, fit, point length, and pressing of the shirt/collar are spot on, a little variation in the angle of the spread or tie space can be accommodated.

In my view the main drawback about Prince Charles's collars (in addition to the short points as noted by Michael) is that they are too low. This makes the 'strangled' effect more pronounced when they fit snugly. Charles has quite a prominent Adam's apple along with his long neck, so the low front stand may be necessary for comfort. But it makes him look, as Michael put it, a bit like a turkey. Given his thin lower face, the collar spread might look quite appropriate given a slightly higher front stand and the longer points that change would require for them to reach the shirt collar.

I have always noted and admired the higher stand on Michael's collars. Not so extreme as Prince Michael's, but high enough not to "choke off" the visual movement from tie up to face. Insufficient front stand height is one of the most common shirt faults I see, whether in RTW, MTM, or bespoke. Correcting that and adjusting the point length in response would go a long way towards realizing the balance that Michael propounds, and that most of us like.

[couch]

Here's another shot of Vox that illustrates the interplay of collar height, spread angle, and tie space in leading up to the face even more clearly. It's hard to get a good arch on your tie when the collar stand is too low. (The photo shows a bit of fullness in the shirt chest that has been pushed into a wrinkle, possibly by the selfie arm.)

[bond_and_beyond]

Couch, more than anything this shows how camera angles and closeups can distort the impression of the collar / tie / head / lapel nexus. If you look at some of the photos of Voxsartoria in full figure, the collar and tie knot look quite small to me compared to what is recommended on this thread.

This photo illustrates this well (and indeed reveals the head shape for those who requested that ):

Untitled by Bond Beyond, on Flickr

BB

[couch]

Well, this is not the most flattering choice, I admit, and it's from summer of 2013. The spread here is wider than I'd recommend for his build and face, and the stand does not look as high in this photo, though as you note, that could be posture and camera angle. The knot size would be fine and the point length is unknown and probably also fine (under the jacket collar) if the spread were more moderate and the front stand appeared like others he's shown.

The point is not that Vox is a uniformly faultless example of shirts. I think many of his spreads are wider than I'd choose if I were built as he is. But if one looks at the full history, especially at the dressing-room shots from the identical vantage point (3/4 figure), you'll see a number of very satisfactory examples of moderate spread, high-ish front stand, and good point length. Vox is a beefy guy, and not unduly tall, so I think a very large knot would not be useful. Many of the most flattering pictures of him are in Mercer button-downs with open collar, and that I think merely reinforces the point that a slightly more vertical collar emphasis (less spread, good front stand) serves him well.

For those who care to do the review of his tumblr without extraneous topics: http://www.voxsartoria.com/tagged/voxsartoria

[alden]

BB

From that picture I have to agree with Couch that I much prefer the button downs on Vox. A Windsor collar cut along the same lines would suit the very elegant Monsieur Vox shown here in full Alden gunclub splendor.

vox-gun-club by The London Lounge, on Flickr
I respect his desire for privacy, it is to his great credit that we are so eager to see more of him m!

Cheers

[bond_and_beyond]

Couch,

My point was that it was likely the same shirt collar in the full figure shot as in the closeups. Have a look at the numerous other full figure shots he’s posted and I think you will see what I mean.

Camera angles and lense used has a lot to do with this, but I think the full figure shots are best to judge the collars as that gives the most realitic approximation of how he looks in real life.

For the record I think Voxsartoria’s outfits look great on him, including the collars. It is just that they don’t seem to follow the advice on this thread and indeed the collar now discussed is very similar to Collar no. 1 I posted earlier.

Michael, I also really like his Mercer button downs, and agree that it would be interesting to see him with a non-BD in the same vein.

By the way, he see below how his NSM collars look like when not being worn. Quite a spread, almost no tie space and nice long points:

Untitled by Bond Beyond, on Flickr


BB

[hectorm]

Quite a spread, almost no tie space and nice long points

IMO, the lack of tie space is not the feature that creates trouble for this particular wearer because his tie knots are on the smallish side and do not require much real state. Actually it´s the small tie knots which don't go that well with the rather tall collar band and with such a wide spread. The small knots are left hanging up there, much collar band is not covered, and lots of the necktie loop peeks out from under the wings. All this is not deadly, but it could be better balanced indeed.

[uppercase]

If you’re interested in nexus shirt collar/tie photos, this Tumblr blogger-
style-connaisseur
seems to post a lot.

[alden]

BB

That design collar is called a collo francese in Naples and you will be very hard pressed to see an elegant Neapolitan wearing one. It is more of an "export" collar.

VR001271-copie-1 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

612305358 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

6a91b6c18b5419281656d4a2114c0f9e-1489408432 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

tumblr_m4fe4phA9p1qfex1b by The London Lounge, on Flickr

[voxsartoria]

* * *

The rest of the look is composed, as always, with very beautiful clothes. What is missing is the man. I have never seen a full photo of the Man nor have I had the pleasure to meet him. Maybe some of you have. And as you all know I am much more interested in the Man than in his clothes. Or rather, I am only interested in the clothes in the context of the Man. What we see are stunning clothes arranged into mostly great looks, but they could be clothes on a tailor's dummy. Where is the man who animates them, or not?

Cheers

Agreed! And well said.

The headless shots are very dead looking.

Are these fellows in a witness protection program?

A director of design at a large graphic arts firm used to be active on another online "style" forum. His Photoshop technique was quite extraordinary, and he combined this skill with a deadly, penetrating wit to skewer and deflate many a forum member.

This seems an appropriate moment to share one of his works, featuring an old image of me that he edited and then inserted into the far left of this photograph.