Waist covering for 4x1 DB dinner jacket

[bespokewrinkles]

Wrinkles, any particular reason you picked peak lapel over shawl? Thanks!

I see too many shawl lapels these days among the sartorially astute. I prefer to not do what everyone does.




By contrast, the 4x1 peak lapel DB configuration is very seldom seen. When men do commission double breasted dinner jackets, they often choose the "safer" 4x2 layout. Perhaps the ghastly interpretations of the style in the 1980's ruined its reputation. Back in the Golden Era of menswear, however, 4x1 peak lapel was a very popular and elegant design.

Therefore, the style has both the pedigree, and the benefit of being something unique. Hence my choice.

[linsanity23]

Wrinkles,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question and sharing the thinking process behind. Indeed, it is not uncommon to spot a shawl collar dinner jackets over the Internet nowadays. But I still find it rare to see a (nicely executed) shawl collar DJ in real life. This makes me want to try shawl as my first dinner jacket option.

Looking forward to the 4X1 layout for your commission. I like it on your sport coat, as I remember you refer it to "Kent button". I think applying it to your dinner jacket is a brilliant idea.

Wrinkles, any particular reason you picked peak lapel over shawl? Thanks!

I see too many shawl lapels these days among the sartorially astute. I prefer to not do what everyone does.




By contrast, the 4x1 peak lapel DB configuration is very seldom seen. When men do commission double breasted dinner jackets, they often choose the "safer" 4x2 layout. Perhaps the ghastly interpretations of the style in the 1980's ruined its reputation. Back in the Golden Era of menswear, however, 4x1 peak lapel was a very popular and elegant design.

Therefore, the style has both the pedigree, and the benefit of being something unique. Hence my choice.

[davidhuh]

Indeed, it is not uncommon to spot a shawl collar dinner jackets over the Internet nowadays. But I still find it rare to see a (nicely executed) shawl collar DJ in real life. This makes me want to try shawl as my first dinner jacket option.

Dear linsanity,

well observed, agree. The proof of the pudding was my English tailor who made my shawl collar DB. First, he wanted to refuse my wish, saying that although this was a beautiful style, he had not cut one in 20 years and didn't feel much at ease. I convinced him, and the result was excellent. When I'm at black tie events, I'm usually the only one with a shawl collar DB. A lot of men are wearing RTW and MTM dinner suits, and those never come in this style.

In the end, it is not that important - as long as the result is pleasing the wearer and his lady

Cheers, David

[andy57]

I think a shawl collar dinner jacket is a good look, especially for jackets that are not black. It seems to promote a more relaxed demeanor. My ivory DJ has shawl lapels, and I recently commissioned a green velvet jacket with shawl lapels and a linked front (where the quarters do not overlap). It's just about possible to see the lapel in this composite image, but as its natural habitat is the evening under poor lighting, it's the very devil to photograph well.

[bespokewrinkles]

I think a shawl collar dinner jacket is a good look, especially for jackets that are not black. It seems to promote a more relaxed demeanor.

Interesting that you mentioned that. I actually want to wear my dinner jacket with a stiff front shirt and detachable collar. That's another consideration that led me to choose the peak lapels; the shawl collar's "casualness" would be a bit inconsistent with the formality of the shirt.

Incidentally, my commission will also be made up in midnight blue.

[andy57]

I think a shawl collar dinner jacket is a good look, especially for jackets that are not black. It seems to promote a more relaxed demeanor.

Interesting that you mentioned that. I actually want to wear my dinner jacket with a stiff front shirt and detachable collar. That's another consideration that led me to choose the peak lapels; the shawl collar's "casualness" would be a bit inconsistent with the formality of the shirt.

Incidentally, my commission will also be made up in midnight blue.

In that case, I would absolutely go with peak lapels. Incidentally, from where did you obtain your shirt and collar?

[linsanity23]

Thanks David for sharing your observation as well. A dinner party organised by Mr. Michael Alden for the Lounge members will surely be witnessing more shawl collar DJs.

Lounge members know their choices and the reason behind them. I always find it interesting to read about other people's thinking process behind their commission, even the idea will not always work for me. I like DJs to look a bit more relaxed. And I would prefer my English tailor to execute the shawl. Italians rarely do it right. Hence my choice. But it doesn't prevent me from appreciating the peak lapel on another well dressed gentleman's DJ.

[bespokewrinkles]

In that case, I would absolutely go with peak lapels. Incidentally, from where did you obtain your shirt and collar?

I'm working with Budd on this. The plan is for the bib to have one visible stud and possibly a custom collar pattern.

[andy57]

I'm working with Budd on this. The plan is for the bib to have one visible stud and possibly a custom collar pattern.

That sounds interesting and unusual. Further to your comment just above, what's your thinking behind this configuration?

[hectorm]

I recently commissioned a green velvet jacket with shawl lapels and a linked front

Thank you, Andy, for posting the picture of your green velvet DJ. It looks veeeery nice.
For a long time I´ve been entertaining the idea of adding something along those lines to my black tie repertoire but I have not been able to reach the point of moving into action. I definitely don´t want something that screams "holiday season" or "aging playboy". But in your case, the DJ is a great example of good taste and sobriety, and the picture an inspiration.

[bespokewrinkles]

I'm working with Budd on this. The plan is for the bib to have one visible stud and possibly a custom collar pattern.

That sounds interesting and unusual. Further to your comment just above, what's your thinking behind this configuration?

One visible stud has always looked more elegant to me for a stiff front, especially in combination with very high rise trousers that I favor:



As for the collar, today's mass market offerings of stiff collars are far inferior to those available during the golden age, both in terms of variety:



...and having proper proportions. Look how deep the wings are on this vintage collar:



vs this modern collar:



The shallowness of the wings on the latter collar causes the bow tie to ride high on the neck:



...instead of running along the bottom edge of the collar as is proper:



All the mass market wings I've seen have this issue. Interestingly, the paper collars sold by Amazon Dry Goods are cut properly, based as they are on vintage patterns.

I haven't seen a standard collar made by Budd yet. I ordered one standard collar to try. If I'm not happy with it, I'm told that they can cut a custom pattern for me. This service isn't cheap, and there's a minimum order of six collars per pattern.

[andy57]

Interesting. I have to disagree about the single stud, but I think reasonable gentlemen can do that. Are the collars made (or sold) by D'Arcy also problematic?

[bespokewrinkles]

Interesting. I have to disagree about the single stud, but I think reasonable gentlemen can do that. Are the collars made (or sold) by D'Arcy also problematic?

That's the first shop I bought sample collars from. Yes, they look exactly like the Grafton collar I showed above, unfortunately.

[Noble Savage]

Interesting. I have to disagree about the single stud, but I think reasonable gentlemen can do that. Are the collars made (or sold) by D'Arcy also problematic?

That's the first shop I bought sample collars from. Yes, they look exactly like the Grafton collar I showed above, unfortunately.

I had a go at their Imperial collar, and folded the wings down myself. The idea was certainly a good one: it looked much more distinctive than the regular wing collars, and you could angle them a bit deeper.

However, collar opening depth need not affect the position of the necktie itself, as illustrated by this, extraordinary variant:



Perhaps the shirt collar stud is somehow being attached to the necktie as a sort of behind-the-scenes magic trick?

It certainly is being held down in the back, and better white tie shirts have a loop under the collar at the back to facilitate this.

[bond_and_beyond]

I haven't seen a standard collar made by Budd yet. I ordered one standard collar to try. If I'm not happy with it, I'm told that they can cut a custom pattern for me. This service isn't cheap, and there's a minimum order of six collars per pattern.

Bespokewrinkles, how's your order with Budd turning out? I have also gone to Budd in hopes of getting some proper dinner shirts, but at the sample shirt stage currently.

Which of the gentlemen at Budd are you liasing with? Darren T was somewhat sceptical of my idea of having a stiff front shirt worn with a dinner suit, as he considers it a white tie only option.

Thanks,
BB