NPR story on bespoke suits

[cuffthis]

Tom & Michael,

BRAVO!!! Well done.

Cheers,

Tom

[doccol91]

I am not sure if you all picked up on the tongue in cheek nature of the report. It was meant to somewhat make fun of chaps who would pay $3000 for a suit

[AlexanderKabbaz]

The person interviewed is quite clearly an impostor - he claims that side vents are a "little detail"

Actually, he was quite serious. I have learned from the interviewee that a shirt is made up of some 3,750 little details, each of which can ...no, should ... no, must ... be adjusted no fewer than five times each in 1/32" increments.

[Guest]

Unless one buys a lot (like I did, perhaps $40,000 worth of clothes in about a year), how expensive each little detail is is hard to appreciate, especially if you were brought up in the NYC fire sale mentality (and also the price searching software of the Internet). My own expectations have changed considerably. I used to be proud of spending 300 dollars/pair of shoes, now less than $500 hardly seems like a deal. Shirts over $100 dollars seemed amazingly extravagant, now $300 dollar (bespoke) shirts seem about right. And though it still hurts, a $3000 2 piece suit (if it is bespoke) seems "right." I must have wasted about 5-10% of the total amount (it is inclusive of waste) trying to save money by buying things on eBay or finding someone "less expensive."

Don't get me wrong, I know there were a lot of hurt feelings when someone on the fora would arrogantly declare something not "up to snuff" like a cheap tailor or cheap brand of shoes. But when someone spends less on an item, they should be congratulated, because what I have found is that spending less on something and getting exactly what you want is actually quite a challenge. If I go into Henry Poole, and get a beautiful suit, would anyone be surprised? The same goes for my tailor Centofanti. With people so upright, it "sets itself." Darren, Chan, whatever, the "lower cost" options, have a lot of obstacles between you and the great garment, and if you are successful, perhaps you should treasure those garments more than the A&S or Mahon jewels.

[manton]

I am not sure if you all picked up on the tongue in cheek nature of the report. It was meant to somewhat make fun of chaps who would pay $3000 for a suit

I didn't get that sense at all, either from the piece itself or from my (long) conversation with Patrick Hirsch.

[Mark Seitelman]

Bravo, Manton!

Dr. B, it's always nice to find top quality at a lower price. I have heard very good things about WW Chan from some of our members, and I got to inspect a Chan sportscoat. It was excellent. Of course, Chan's low prices are due to the low labor costs of China.

However, it is very, very rare to get a deal on top quality bespoke or MTM clothes from either the American, English, or Italian makers. It's the nature of the beast. A bespoke tailor on either Madison Avenue or Savile Row is paying a much higher labor rate than the Chinese or East Europeans.

An interesting question for another time and another place: will the Chinese either take-over or make big inroads into the luxury trade? I have heard that the Italians are most concerned that the Chinese will take-over this area in time.

Bargains are mostly available in RTW at the better stores, such as Bergdorf, Borrelli, Barney's, or Oxxford. I understand that the sales have begun.

[T4phage]

......However, it is very, very rare to get a deal on top quality bespoke or MTM clothes from either the American, English, or Italian makers. It's the nature of the beast. A bespoke tailor on either Madison Avenue or Savile Row is paying a much higher labor rate than the Chinese or East Europeans.......

I would qualify this statement with the addition of ".... in the U.S". It is not that difficult to get very good bespoke suits, shirts, and shoes for much much less than what is paid in the U.S. Again, mainly due to there being more artisans available.

[jcusey]

I would qualify this statement with the addition of ".... in the U.S". It is not that difficult to get very good bespoke suits, shirts, and shoes for much much less than what is paid in the U.S. Again, mainly due to there being more artisans available.

Twist the knife, T4, twist the knife.

[Guest]

T4Phage, getting shoes and shirts consistently for less than $500 and $300 with decent material would be tough, whether you are in Minsk or Timbuktu (and this from a Jantzen fan). So far as suits are concerned, I am as expert as anyone here on "discount remote bespoke" and while I am enjoying my relationship with my Bucharest tailor, getting a suit made with the material of your choice is quite a challenge, and the cost is around $700 (because of the material). But you pay in time and effort what you save, almost.

[Guest]

Doubly hard to take from T4Phage because I have admired his exquisite taste for a long time, and you KNOW the man does not hesitate to take advantage of his domicile in Europe!

[T4phage]

JCusey.. !

David, good quality bespoke shirts for below $300 is not that difficult. Bespoke Shoes for below $500 is impossible to find.

[TVD]

One should separate style and workmanship. You can get decent bespoke workmanship for a good price, but sometimes you must be prepared to travel and wait.

Style is different, though. The best Savile Row, Naples etc tailors, those with exceptional talent, style and service, why should they sell at cut price? They are the best, so they will rightly charge a price that maximises their profit. A perfect product cannot be had cheap. The often stated overhead savings, alleging that "off the Row" one can get the same quality more cheaply is in my opinion an illusion. Why should the best craftsmen wish to make less money, and be less famous than the second rate?

Real Savings can be made in four ways:

a) travel, as say Naples may still have lower hourly pay than say London. But the artisan you chose at your foreign location is likely at the top of price and quality there.

b) client input, as you may be able to find a good artisan, who lacks the true talent for style. The knowledgable customer who is prepared to guide, teach, experiment, throw away the ocasional failure, can get good results. But it is a tiresome process. These tailors I would classify as those you are happy to use yourself (knowing their limitations) but would never recommend to a novice friend. Also, never ignore associated costs (travel, accomodation, days off work, supplying better quality trimmings etc).

c) rip-offs: an expert customer avoids being charged astronomical sums by overpriced luxury goods makers (a saving in "opportunity cost" terms). Remember the Prince Jefri court case a few years back!

d) avoiding complete loss (see also b above!): For every budget suit or pair of shoes that you do not wear because it is faulty in your eyes (and very often it is only YOUR eyes that see its alleged shortcoming), you could have ordered 50% of a perfect one in Savile Row.

All this is difficult to understand until you stepped into all the traps yourself simply because paying full price is psychologically daunting, even if you can afford it. Mistakes are a good way to learn. Not the cheapest, though.

[whittaker]

All this is difficult to understand until you stepped into all the traps yourself simply because paying full price is psychologically daunting, even if you can afford it. Mistakes are a good way to learn. Not the cheapest, though.

Education, certainly if it is (a) in England and (b) of high quality, is always expensive.

Going "off-Row" for my first bespoke suit provided me with valuable experience. It has given me a seasoning that enables me to visit Savile Row and judge the distance between a suit tailored there and "off-Row". Similarly I can now use empirical knowledge in judging the advantages of bespoke over "ready-to-wear".

[Mulberrywood]

Manton.

Sounded balanced, and you got a lot of information out in the short time that they gave you

Good job!