Homburg or Coke/Bowler Hat

[Dangleberry]

I went into both Bates and Lock & Co but ended up buying my caps from Laird in Covent Garden. I was served by the owner who was very helpful indeed and I found Laird more relaxed and welcoming. Also, the prices were about 20% lower for the same quality of materials and make.

Hectorum, a trilby is perhaps easier to wear but I found the fedora suited me more. A case of trying lots of hats on and picking what feels comfortable, I suppose.

[hectorm]

I ended up buying my caps from Laird in Covent Garden. I was served by the owner who was very helpful indeed and I found Laird more relaxed and welcoming.

Thank you, Dangleberry. I thought I was giving you good advice and I ended up getting good advice. I didn't know about this hat shop in Covent Garden and I´ll check it out on my next trip.

[Dangleberry]

[quote="hector]
Thank you, Dangleberry. I thought I was giving you good advice and I ended up getting good advice. I didn't know about this hat shop in Covent Garden and I´ll check it out on my next trip.[/quote]

A pleasure. Laird has a small shop just off Piccadilly and another shop near Leicester Square, on the Covent Garden side. The latter is actually two shops that they have not been allowed to knock together. I was served by the owner and his brother in the right hand of the two shops and they were extremely helpful as I tried on a large number of caps and hats and they gave very honest opinions.

In comparison to Lock or Bates, I suspect that Laird attracts a younger crowd and perhaps more tourists, given the locations. Certainly a different atmosphere in Laird - not better or worse than the others, just more relaxed.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts should you ever pop in, Hectorm.

[andy57]

I'm visiting London and popped into Bates in Jermyn Street yesterday to try a Homburg. Sadly, I guess after trying some hats in San Francisco and now in London, it's clear that a Homburg is not a style that suits me.

[Luca]

In comparison to Lock or Bates, I suspect that Laird attracts a younger crowd and perhaps more tourists, given the locations. Certainly a different atmosphere in Laird - not better or worse than the others, just more relaxed.

I know exactly what you mean. I've been to Bates twice, now. Both times I found the service polite and attentive but somewhat passive. No information volunteered, no questions asked, little sense of engagement. It reminded me of the scene in "Mr Selfridge" where a 'traditional' shopkeeper is aghast at the idea of someone entering a shop and not simply specifying exactly what they need, paying for it and leaving as expeditiously as possible. By contrast, Layrd seem reasonably happy for a client to 'waste their time' and to suggest, ask, explain. What I find puzzling about the more storied purveyors' detachment is that the shops re often spectrally empty and quiet and it would not hurt them, commercially, to 'entertain' even reasonably low-probability purchasers, I should think. I think they underestimate how many chaps who perhaps have a nascent or even well-established interest but no long-standing custom in high-cost traditional apparel find these places rather forbidding. Add this to the expense and the electivity of such purchases, I would not be surprised if a more engaged approach would not greatly increase their sales.

[Dangleberry]

I think they underestimate how many chaps who perhaps have a nascent or even well-established interest but no long-standing custom in high-cost traditional apparel find these places rather forbidding. Add this to the expense and the electivity of such purchases, I would not be surprised if a more engaged approach would not greatly increase their sales.

I completely agree. I would not have ventured into Lock or Bates in my younger years as they seemed fairly forbidding. A young man (or woman) with a budding interest in hats might well feel more comfortable heading into Laird, feel at ease there and discover that the prices are lower for no obvious drop in quality. As such, why would they then move over to Bates or Lock & Co?

I felt a real passion for the product in Laird which is infectious and surely a prerequisite in selling. Of course, I may have been lucky with who served me but I will certainly go back there for my next hats. I see no reason to go elsewhere.

I suppose it is a fine balance - some customers might prefer the more selective atmosphere of Lock or Bates and perhaps some buyers might feel emboldened by shopping in a place such as Laird and want to 'graduate' on to an institution such as Lock.

[AndyM]

I understand why some might consider Locks forbidding due to the history but, in reality, I have always found the staff very polite and helpful with no pressure to buy.

When I visited the Patey shop in Connaught Street for the first time I ended up having a long and interesting conversation with the man there who turned out to have previously been at Locks. I did not buy anything that day and made it clear at the start that I was only looking but was treated like an honoured guest. I appreciate if a shop is very busy they cannot indulge in social conversation but if time permits, making someone feel welcome may turn them into a repeat customer.

I am glad Dangleberry found Laird helpful, a cap is a good start to regular hat wearing, sadly as Laird only seem to go up to a size 61 they are no use to me!

[hectorm]

I would be interested to hear your thoughts should you ever pop in, Hectorm.

I plan to be in London on the second week of April. For sure I will drop by the shop and give it a try. I just read that Laird procures its cloths from a merchant like Dugdale and from a mill like Lovat, which is always a good sign. And I also need a good hat brush

[Dangleberry]

AndyM,

I completely agree that the people at Lock & Co are very good. It is more the point that the shop could be intimidating to a number of potential customers. There isn't really much they can do about though. Laird is less intimidating so perhaps a better place to start for a nervous, first time hat buyer.

Hectorm, the people at Laird assured me that they used the same cloth as Lock. They also pointed out that they have an excellent relationship with Lock and the two shops will often recommend each other if a particular product is not in stock in their own establishment.

[Melcombe]

I'm visiting London and popped into Bates in Jermyn Street yesterday to try a Homburg. Sadly, I guess after trying some hats in San Francisco and now in London, it's clear that a Homburg is not a style that suits me.

Sorry to hear that - I have to say I also like the idea of a Homburg, but the reality is not kind to my large and round head.

One (radically different) alternative you might consider if you suffer from excess brain capacity (that's my excuse...) is the R M Williams / Akubra "RM" hat

http://www.rmwilliams.com.au/e-SalesB2C ... -AEDK-8H8I

Here's the late great man himself wearing one :



It wears a good deal more formal than you might suppose. It has a relatively high crown, is a very fine grade felt and the detailing is excellent.

[hectorm]

I would be interested to hear your thoughts should you ever pop in, Hectorm.

Finally this past week I made it for the first time to Laird´s shop on New Row as part of my hat shopping spree in London, which also included visits -back and forth- to the old known places: Lock on St. James´s street and Bates on Jermyn.

Laird was a nice surprise and I had an agreeable experience there. Of the two Laird stores next to each other I ventured to the one on the right which seemed to cater to a more traditional and male clientele. I was the only customer at the time and was helped by Oliver, a young gentleman part of the family who owns the company. The environment is very relaxed, to say the least, and it´s obvious that they cater to a younger crowd and passer-by tourists along the pedestrian street. Notwithstanding they seem to know what they´re doing and,on the shelves, they display a fairly good selection of models, colors and sizes all within a range of what I would describe as the lower/medium end of the market.

To make the story short, I ended up buying a beaver felt brown trilby with a 7cm brim to replace my current workhorse which has served me well for a number of years but by now has a few indelible stains. What made me choose Laird´s trilby over Lock´s or Bates´s was that comparing the few hats that are to be found within the same price range (prices which are amongst the lowest for Lock or Bates, but the highest for Laird), Laird´s trilby is of a slightly better quality and has a sweatband made of very supple leather instead of fabric. This latter detail is a personal preference of mine. I think it makes for a better fit, and in the long run, for a better construction.
Of course, Lock and Bates also sell hats (for over 500 GBP and much more) made by Borsalino or of the higher grade fur felts, which Laird does not.

By the end of the day –as a minor indulgence- I also bought a rolling bleached Panama hat...but this time from Bates. It came presented with a very nice travelling tube. Oliver had told me during the earlier visit me that Laird had stopped selling rolling Panamas altogether because the quality -at the price range their normal customers were more comfortable with- didn´t make it for a truly crushable Panama and the hats were breaking at the crown after a while.

[davidhuh]

By the end of the day –as a minor indulgence- I also bought a rolling bleached Panama hat...but this time from Bates. It came presented with a very nice travelling tube. Oliver had told me during the earlier visit me that Laird had stopped selling rolling Panamas altogether because the quality -at the price range their normal customers were more comfortable with- didn´t make it for a truly crushable Panama and the hats were breaking at the crown after a while.

Dear Hectorm,

nice to hear about your hat shopping tour

On the rolling Panamas: I bought one a couple of years ago, but will never roll it again. In the end, the Carludovica palmata is sort of a straw, and it will break rather sooner than later when the owner is not super cautious or when the fiber is getting dry. The idea of a rolling Panama is nice, but failing in my daily practice.

Cheers, David

[Dr T]

Couch - good attention to detail

[hectorm]

The idea of a rolling Panama is nice, but failing in my daily practice.

Yep, you´re right. Even if they call it "rolling" Panama, the sales people at Bates warn you against rolling it for more than a few hours, occasionally while travelling. And only in the right way (pop the crown up, snap the brim down, flatten, roll) and to its tube box. Never for storing it or in the pocket.
I don't plan to roll it more than maybe once a year. I think I will be fine (and it´s not like I bought one of those Montecristi superfino anyway).

[DFR]

I fear these days that the bowler hat would be regarded as costume save in some very specific circumstances such as elderly judges going to court or else retired army officers going to a remembrance parade.

The other use which is slightly damning is the habit of Ulster Unionists wearing them as part of their 'uniform' when parading in Northern Ireland or Glasgow in offensive celebration of events that happened three hundred years ago.