Shawl collar dinner suit - self lapel?

[oscarsfan]

Hello,

Many of the ivory shawl collars I see have self lapels. In black, many have satin, fewer grosgrain and the very occasionally self lapel.

I am leaning towards generous (large) self lapels in the shawl. Has anyone done this? Any advice?


Thank you,

-

Any idea if this MafooFan self-collar?

[Macallan1926]

Foo's are midnight grosgrain

[hectorm]

I am leaning towards generous (large) self lapels in the shawl. Has anyone done this? Any advice?

Are you planning on covering the side seams of your trousers with self cloth too? And what about the silk covered buttons on the jacket? Would you be using plain black buttons instead?

[oscarsfan]

I am leaning towards generous (large) self lapels in the shawl. Has anyone done this? Any advice?

Are you planning on covering the side seams of your trousers with self cloth too? And what about the silk covered buttons on the jacket? Would you be using plain black buttons instead?

Hmmmm,

Had not thought that through. No grosgrain available locally. Maybe I have to resort to satin. (Strongly prefer grosgrain over satin.)

[hectorm]

Dear oscarsfan,
I was asking you about the side braids and the buttons because I do not think a dinner suit with self lapels would fit the bill. Lapel facings is what makes a jacket, a dinner jacket.
If you go with self lapels then you should not have a satin band on the seams of your trouser nor silk covered buttons on your jacket. And now what you are left with is just a black suit with shawl lapels.
If you can´t get grosgrain where you live, much better. I prefer grosgrain for peaked lapels but IMHO curvy shawl lapels on black tie are to be faced with satin. The trousers side braids and buttons must follow.
It gets a bit tricky when it comes to your bow tie because you still want satin but don´t want to be too matchy-matchy.

[oscarsfan]

Thank you.


This is a Knize I found on the web.



Would this look more incongruent in black?

Any idea how the trousers may have been braided? Perhaps with blue?

-

[angelo]

Oscarsfan,
although I have no direct evidence, I believe that the Knize dinner jacket was not part of a dinner suit and consequently did not have trousers of the same fabric, but more likely as a "pure" DJ was associated to black evening trousers that could have had or not a side seam black silk band.

Angelo

[uppercase]

Side question here : regarding the shirt studs… are black studs or plain mother pearl buttons the more conservative choice?
TIA

[hectorm]

Dear UC,
although plain MoP buttons could be considered the most formal since they are the ones which resemble the MoP studs worn with full evening dress, IMO the most conservative (traditional) option for a stiff front dinner shirt would be black studs. For a soft front shirt, plain or pleated, you can still wear conservatively the black studs but I think you could also wear mother of pearl buttons without being called revolutionary (and in the case of a plain front shirt -which I wear with my own shawl lapel DB DJ- I believe it looks even better).

[VRaivio]

I like Eidos Napoli's new take immensely:



...shantung silk instead of the usual satin or grosgrain.

[hectorm]

IMO the possibilities for "alternative" black tie are as endless as misguided. I could live with shantung or dupioni for the lapel silk facings of a summer dinner jacket provided its main cloth is a smooth black/midnight blue.
The barchetta and the spalla camicia are always welcome nods to Neapolitan tailoring and could work for an "informal" black tie but put altogether with the business nailhead fabric and the turquoise studs, mmmmhhh.... I don´t think an Italian gentleman would go that way.
I believe that sometimes -not always- young men opt for "alternative" black tie as an easy way out because they like the look and do not dare or know how to put together a well rounded dinner suit. Once you have nailed the classics I think you have more authority to start tweaking and I assure you the results are infinitely better.

[rodes]

I like the Knize jacket shown above, however it really is not a dinner jacket IMO. More of a lounge jacket to be worn in one's own home or perhaps in the home of some close friends. The herringbone cloth and the light shade of navy make it almost casual to my eye. Still, I like the styling and the depth of color is astonishing. Certainly wish that I had occasions to wear this for I would commission it.
With regard to the shirt studs, my preference for this, as well as more traditional black tie would be for a covered placket showing no studs or buttons.

[Frederic Leighton]

[...] mmmmhhh.... I don´t think an Italian gentleman would go that way. [...]

Coming across that photo only, I would certainly mistake the garment for a dressing gown.

I like the Knize jacket shown above [...] Certainly wish that I had occasions to wear this for I would commission it.

I would commission it too! ...shall we agree about meeting every fifth Friday of the month in a random venue of London, dress code: blue-herringbone shawl-lapel evening jacket?

[hectorm]

...shall we agree about meeting every fifth Friday of the month in a random venue of London, dress code: blue-herringbone shawl-lapel evening jacket?

Hey, Federico, that's only about 4 times a year and it's fine with me. But regarding the venue, given the style of that jacket (more like a smoking jacket than a dinner one) it would have to be at your place, for starters.

[Frederic Leighton]

...shall we agree about meeting every fifth Friday of the month in a random venue of London, dress code: blue-herringbone shawl-lapel evening jacket?

Hey, Federico, that's only about 4 times a year and it's fine with me. But regarding the venue, given the style of that jacket (more like a smoking jacket than a dinner one) it would have to be at your place, for starters.

Hectorm, I agree on the domestic destination of the jacket. Anyway, any chance of calling it an ice-cream jacket? I retired my two pipes and hid my provision of toscano cigars. Everything is set up for a smoke-less future. [hmmm... just four times a year, you say...]