Just how honest are London tailors

[davidhuh]

Dear Hectorm,

thank you for this remark. Knowing both tailoring schools a little by experience, I could not come to UC's conclusions. They are different, yes indeed, and I enjoy this difference I consider carefully what I want to have made where, but I would not want to miss any of them.

My experience is limited, as it narrows down to comparing two tailors.

Cheers, David

[uppercase]

There can be no question but that, world wide, the finest bespoke clothing is made in Italy today, certainly not SR.

God forbid, nobody is talking 'fair'. Certainly not objective. Nobody is talking statistics. Nobody is talking value for money.

What I'm talking about is best of class. The finest in the world. The ne plus ultra of classic masculine elegance… clothing which can literally stop traffic for its beauty. Clothing which will transform you and have women throw themselves at your feet. The one suit which will change your life, become the love of your life, which you never knew existed, though only now discovered late in age.

If that is what you are searching for…go to Italy.

If you are searching for workman-like, good, stolid bespoke clothing, make your way to SR.

You will not be disappointed in either. You pays yer money and makes yer choices.

But…

The most handwork. The finest handwork. The most hours per suit. The finest customer service. The highest standards. The depth of the bench. The aesthetic. The artisanship. The relationship : to know each craftsman who touched your suit. The human bond,the pact between client and artisan …. The beauty, the art, the joint pursuit of perfection…this can only be attempted in Italy, not necessarily achieved.

If you are on an insane mission to achieve what you see in Apparel Arts, in the '20s and '30s: the finest, most nuanced interpretation of elegant men's clothing with subtlety and consummate taste, your only chance is Italy.

Bring your finest, most conservative, most beautiful and richest English cloth, choose among the top Italian tailors, expect to pay 30% more than SR, be your most staunchly conservative self: avoid all Italian artifice and temptation, travel to Italy no less than 3 times for your fittings, assume the cost of hotels, pastas and negronis…repeat this for 3 more suits until your pattern is perfected.

Then be prepared to have your breath taken away.

As well as divorce, destitution and depravity because this is surely what an Italian bespoke addiction will lead to.

But you will finally be happy. There can be no finer reward for you.

[davidhuh]

Dear Uppercase,

as said, I have a problem with such general statements. I'm using 3 tailors in 3 countries following 3 different sartorial traditions. They all deliver what I expect - sartorial craft at its best. There are variations I have fun with, others which I enjoy, a few I have to be attentive about.

I agree lightheartedly that between the three, food is best in Italy, but there are some other cuisines on this planet to tickle my palate

Cheers, David

[hectorm]

If that is what you are searching for…go to Italy.

I see. Pity me, but I'm not looking for the suit that changes my life, nor for developing an addiction or getting divorced or becoming destitute or depraved. I'm not even looking for (at least consciously) being happy at the end.

I agree lightheartedly that between the three, food is best in Italy, but there are some other cuisines on this planet to tickle my palate.

Actually, David, the food may be better in Italy but in my trips for the last 15 years or so I have dined much better in London than in all the Italian cities I have visited. Let me explain: I have eaten very well for a few euros at almost every hole in the wall I stopped in Rome or Naples, but in London I have eaten superbly (for small fortunes, though) at fine Indian, Sichuan, Portuguese, etc. restaurants. I guess it all depends where you go within both countries. The same applies to bespoke.

[andreyb]

Here is my take on SR vs Italy: SR + Spain.

I order my "proper" coats and trousers (alas, no suits for me) in SR, and for summer (which is actually quite hot in Moscow) I wear tebas from Bel y Cia. Which is Italian's "lightweight execution of English coat" taken to the absolute extreme. I now have three tebas, two cut in the traditional way and one just like a regular coat (notch lapel, three buttons, no cuffs on sleeves, double vents):



(sorry for an awkward pose and equally awkward picture...)

So many iGents want "soft cut, no padding, no heavy canvassing, etc" -- yet so few wear tebas (sahariennes / safari jackets) that meet this desire for softness / slackiness (OK, poetry and charming imperfection ) perfectly.

When I need a proper coat, I go to SR.

Andrey

[davidhuh]

Here is my take on SR vs Italy: SR + Spain.

I order my "proper" coats and trousers (alas, no suits for me) in SR, and for summer (which is actually quite hot in Moscow) I wear tebas from Bel y Cia. Which is Italian's "lightweight execution of English coat" taken to the absolute extreme.

Dear Andrey,

very good point about Bel's Tebas. I went to see them in Barcelona about a month ago. What a beautiful store, with great and knowledgeable staff! I will order one next time when I'm in town.

The only downside about Bel: while they do bespoke at the same price as RTW (everything is made in their workshop anyway), they don't allow you to use your own cloth. Their argument: if something goes wrong, they have the cloth on stock

Cheers, David

[Scot]

If you are on an insane mission to achieve what you see in Apparel Arts, in the '20s and '30s

Then you are, as you suggest, "insane" and you may as well dispose of your money in the sunshine as anywhere else.

Speaking for myself, since I am not 6'5" with a 32" waist I have long since abandoned all thought of looking like an Apparel Arts illustration. I look for clothes that fit, are well-made and, being of a somewhat patriotic disposition, look classically British. I find that in SR.

[hectorm]

Here is my take on SR vs Italy: SR + Spain.
I wear tebas from Bel y Cia. Which is Italian's "lightweight execution of English coat" taken to the absolute extreme.

Great unexpected twist, Andrey! No matter whether you favor SR or Italy, everybody interested in having the right garment for the right occasion should add at least one teba to his wardrobe (after securing the basics, of course). I've had mine -in knitted jersey- for more than 15 years now and invariably wear it a few times every summer at the beach when showing up in short sleeves is too casual and a linen jacket is too much.

[Dr T]

There can be no question but that, world wide, the finest bespoke clothing is made in Italy today, certainly not SR.

God forbid, nobody is talking 'fair'. Certainly not objective. Nobody is talking statistics. Nobody is talking value for money.

What I'm talking about is best of class. The finest in the world. The ne plus ultra of classic masculine elegance… clothing which can literally stop traffic for its beauty. Clothing which will transform you and have women throw themselves at your feet. The one suit which will change your life, become the love of your life, which you never knew existed, though only now discovered late in age.

If that is what you are searching for…go to Italy.

If you are searching for workman-like, good, stolid bespoke clothing, make your way to SR.

You will not be disappointed in either. You pays yer money and makes yer choices.

Ive always been SR but find your comments very interesting. Can you name a few tailors who offer this amazing service - its always good to have a plan B - many thanks

The most handwork. The finest handwork. The most hours per suit. The finest customer service. The highest standards. The depth of the bench. The aesthetic. The artisanship. The relationship : to know each craftsman who touched your suit. The human bond,the pact between client and artisan …. The beauty, the art, the joint pursuit of perfection…this can only be attempted in Italy, not necessarily achieved.

If you are on an insane mission to achieve what you see in Apparel Arts, in the '20s and '30s: the finest, most nuanced interpretation of elegant men's clothing with subtlety and consummate taste, your only chance is Italy.

Bring your finest, most conservative, most beautiful and richest English cloth, choose among the top Italian tailors, expect to pay 30% more than SR, be your most staunchly conservative self: avoid all Italian artifice and temptation, travel to Italy no less than 3 times for your fittings, assume the cost of hotels, pastas and negronis…repeat this for 3 more suits until your pattern is perfected.

Then be prepared to have your breath taken away.

As well as divorce, destitution and depravity because this is surely what an Italian bespoke addiction will lead to.

But you will finally be happy. There can be no finer reward for you.

[Dr T]

I have mostly been SR. Im very interested in your comments -have you a Tailor of Tailors you can personally recommend? Its always good to have a plan B. Many thanks.

[uppercase]

In Milan, try A.Caraceni.
Their suits are probably in the US$8,000-- range now. Not sure.
Here's a recent write-up on them:

http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/2014/07 ... 877ZJK9KK0

[hectorm]

I have mostly been SR. Im very interested in your comments -have you a Tailor of Tailors you can personally recommend?

Dr. T,
for the context of the thread and UC´s reply above, I assume you want tailors in Italy, right?
Based on my most recent experiences in Rome and Naples, the only recommendation -from heart and mind- I can personally make is Andrea Luparelli at Sartoria Ripense near Piazza del Popolo in Rome.
There are many excellent tailors and tailor shops in Italy, but I´ve found that this one is truly the "full package". The quality of the craft is superb, the service very friendly to foreigners and they are also somwhat flexible in terms of style (i.e. reasonable jacket shoulders). Besides, visiting the store is a delight in itself and perfect for one-stop shopping (no shoes though). Also, in case it´s a consideration for you (as is for me) the suit prices are half of what UC quotes for Caraceni.

[pur_sang]

In Milan, try A.Caraceni.
Their suits are probably in the US$8,000-- range now. Not sure.
Here's a recent write-up on them:

http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/2014/07 ... 877ZJK9KK0

In my experience, simply the best!

[Dr T]

In Milan, try A.Caraceni.
Their suits are probably in the US$8,000-- range now. Not sure.
Here's a recent write-up on them:

http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/2014/07 ... 877ZJK9KK0

In my experience, simply the best!

Many thanks - I expect to be doing some work for a Bank in Rome either later this year or early next - so I can pay them a visit DrT

[Dr T]

I have mostly been SR. Im very interested in your comments -have you a Tailor of Tailors you can personally recommend?

Dr. T,
for the context of the thread and UC´s reply above, I assume you want tailors in Italy, right?
Based on my most recent experiences in Rome and Naples, the only recommendation -from heart and mind- I can personally make is Andrea Luparelli at Sartoria Ripense near Piazza del Popolo in Rome.
There are many excellent tailors and tailor shops in Italy, but I´ve found that this one is truly the "full package". The quality of the craft is superb, the service very friendly to foreigners and they are also somwhat flexible in terms of style (i.e. reasonable jacket shoulders). Besides, visiting the store is a delight in itself and perfect for one-stop shopping (no shoes though). Also, in case it´s a consideration for you (as is for me) the suit prices are half of what UC quotes for Caraceni.

Many thanks - i will pop in and see them later in the year. DrT