What to look for in a trousering?*

[BirdofSydney]

*If shirt cloth is a shirting, and suit cloth is a suiting, I figure that trouser cloth must be a trousering, no?

I am looking to have a couple of pairs of grey odd trousers made up to wear with navy and patterned blazers/jackets. Hitherto, I've always worn either suits for business, or a casual jacket with chinos or jeans on days off.

I have decided on flat fronts, with belt loops, a small break, and cuffs. One back pocket.

However, I must confess I'm not sure how to pick cloths: greys that work well as a suit don't tend to look good as odd trousers, I surmise.

I will probably get one pair in a four season wool, and the other in a lightish flannel. Any advice would be gratefully accepted on how to choose some cloths!

[Simon A]

There is no such animal as a "four-season" cloth unless you live in the tropics.

Lightweight flannels are generally not very durable and might only give you 1-2 seasons of wear before they fall apart.

Trouser cloth wears much cooler than the equivalent made into a jacket, so you can go quite heavy and remain comfortable. I gather you are in Sydney, which can be pretty cool and windy in winter. I would suggest a good 450-500 g flannel for winter and cooler days of spring and autumn. A more robust alternative with a sporty look is cavalry twill, which you can source from 400g-800g; these will last you forever. For summer and the shoulder seasons, a good 300 g + open-weave worsted like Finmeresco, Brisa or Fresco will do you good service, keep a good crease and be cool on very hot days.

[Frans]

I agree to Simon A's advice.

My tailor made me a pair of worsted mid grey flannel for the colder season and a pair of mid grey Minnis Fresco (#0511) for the summer, both meant to be paired with a blazer or odd jackets. And that is how I use them today

As to the fresco, I ordered it directly at Huddersfields Fine Worsteds (the colours are darker in shade on the homepage than they are in reality). If you choose fresco, then it might be a good idea to have the trousers half lined in the front.

[Concordia]

A lightweight (10oz) whipcord is very useful and comfortable. Don't know if it's more likely to be found in Hardy's or Holland & Sherry.

[davidhuh]

If you choose fresco, then it might be a good idea to have the trousers half lined in the front.

Dear Frans,

This sounds surprising to me. Why would you have lined trousers at all? I'm aware that some tailors do it, and some customers request for it. I have never ever done it with any material.

Cheers, David

[couch]

David, two reasons are usually given: first, if you have skin that is prone to irritation by wool, especially rougher or more rustic wool, the lining eliminates that contact on the more sensitive areas of the inner thigh, etc. Second is that if the trousers are lined to just below the knee, the lining takes some of the pressure when the knee is bent, and its smoothness allows the trouser cloth to slip more easily up and down over the knee. This may help in some degree to reduce stretching, bagging, and wear at the knee (how much it helps is subject to debate).

For a coarser and sometimes scratchy weave like fresco, I assume Frans is invoking the first reason above. Of course, as has been said here before, lining a fresco somewhat defeats the purpose of using such a breathable cloth in warm weather (a better solution, of course, would be to use the brisa or mistral, which combine a gentler hand with excellent breathability!).

[davidhuh]

Dear Couch,

I appreciate the explanations, I have heard this before. But none of my tailors has ever done it.

I discussed the matter last time when I started working with Thomas Mahon. He advised against it, and he was right. Some of my tweed and flannel trousers fulfill the criteria "rough" and "rustic" more than fairly - I would never line them. And on fresco trousers, I agree with you completely - why would one use fresco cloth when lining them?

Cheers, David

[Concordia]

Partial lining down the front still allows a lot of air circulation, while preventing scratching and capturing some of the coolness of air conditioners. Not required for fresco, but not a silly choice, either.

[couch]

Not silly at all. People's susceptibility to irritation from wool varies widely. My significant other develops an angry rash within fifteen minutes if she wears a soft lambswool jumper next to her skin. And she was born and bred in Derbyshire. One shudders to think what would have happened had Dr. Jaeger's Sanitary Woollen undergarments been inflicted upon her. At the other extreme, Wilde and Shaw swore by them.

I too have my open-weave wool summer trousers unlined. I'm not particularly bothered by smooth, hard-finished worsteds, but I usually have my worsted and flannel (and twill and tweed) suit and odd trousers lined to below the knee, for the reasons given earlier. I have noticed that the lined trousers, in comparison to the unlined ones, are slightly less prone to setting creases in the fork area (what the streetwear guys call "cat whiskers"). When they do crease, the lined ones are a little fussier to press, but not enough to matter.

[tchoy]

I have a few pairs of trousers made from H Lessers tropical bunch in different shades of grey, it's has serve me well to wear with most odd jackets from summer through to autumn here in Sydney.
In winter I have a few pair of grey flannel trousers using Minnis and Loro Piana cloth. The Loro Piana is a worsted flannel and of a lighter weight but like others said it's not durable.

[hectorm]

Some of my tweed and flannel trousers fulfill the criteria "rough" and "rustic" more than fairly - I would never line them.

Hello David,
I wonder why you would refuse to have your rough tweed trousers lined, ever. Which are the disadvantages you discussed with Mr. Mahon? I think I may learn something here.
My experience with unlined tweed trousers, although very limited, hasn´t been that great. Not only because the abrasion during long walks, but also to the fact the cloth between the legs wore off so fast.
More recently I have ordered tweed trousers from Bookster (as part of MTM suits) and have them fully lined to the knee. They feel great on the skin and it has been the lining getting the beating and not the cloth.
Regards

[davidhuh]

I wonder why you would refuse to have your rough tweed trousers lined, ever. Which are the disadvantages you discussed with Mr. Mahon? I think I may learn something here.

Dear Hectorm,

If I remember well, he simply said that it was something he would not recommend. The cloth he would be working with was comfortable to wear without lining for most people. So far, it works fine for me, even with the tweeds and flannels mentioned. But I will check with him if he has any specific reasons I don't remember - this was 3 years ago when we discussed it.

Cheers, David

[DFR]

*If shirt cloth is a shirting, and suit cloth is a suiting, I figure that trouser cloth must be a trousering, no?

No, definitely not. The cloth for a suit is not really called 'suiting' either.

[Scot]

I wonder why you would refuse to have your rough tweed trousers lined, ever. Which are the disadvantages you discussed with Mr. Mahon? I think I may learn something here.

Dear Hectorm,

If I remember well, he simply said that it was something he would not recommend. The cloth he would be working with was comfortable to wear without lining for most people. So far, it works fine for me, even with the tweeds and flannels mentioned. But I will check with him if he has any specific reasons I don't remember - this was 3 years ago when we discussed it.

Cheers, David

Malcolm Plews was never one for lining trousers either - said it made them difficult to press really well. He would make a "drop-in" lining that you could remove from the leg of the trousers for pressing. Works quite well with tweed.

Finmeresco makes very nice warm weather trousers and is perfectly comfortable without lining.

[T.K.]

There is a new stonelike shade of gray in the fresco book that I used for a pair of trousers. I did not have them lined because I can handle the coarseness and appreciate the extra circulation of air. The downside is that the pocket and fly internals shine through. With my mid gray suit however I do not have this problem. But actually I do not really consider it to be a problem, just part of the deal.