reasonably priced soft tailored suit

[vinveritas]

It's not clear if GB corrected the unflattering fit (pictured above). If GB did, then there's really no issue with respect to this customer. If not, then the customer, even if he's a novice, has a valid issue against GB. I would think there's no denying GB's obligation to make good on its work, regardless of the going price, especially when it comes to such an egregious fit as above. (One doesn't need a bespoke tailor if the intention is to be fitted like a scarecrow. ) But I agree that it would be difficult to generalize the GB experience based on one or two examples, which might well be exceptions to the rule, given others' satisfactory dealings. There are similar unhappy experiences with SR tailors shared in this forum.

[old henry]

The remedy for the swayback can be found in Sam Regals Garment Cutter
and The Master Designer and perhaps The Blue Book of Mens Tailoring.
One of Henry Stewarts old customers gave me these treasures when he died.
.......And..if I may..in regards to the customer in the mirror.... when an old type tailor would make a coat for a customer he would let him see the sleeveless project in the mirror and let him preen and comment with all of his knowledge and the tailor would smile and agree...then the tailor would let the customer make himself at home and look at cloth and take down bolts and move around with the fitting still on.The customer would forget he had it on and relax and move naturally. This would let the tailor see how it behaves in life and movement. Not just posing in the mirror.
He would mostly want to see if the coat would ride off the neck when it moves.The coat riding off of the neck has possibly to do with many slight things. See Robert DiNero beating Billy Batts bloody with the heel of his shoe in Goodfellas wearing Henty Stewarts coat.

[aston]

Of all the posturing about good, bad, indifferent, tradition, goodness knows what else, it is only Davidhuh who makes a valuable contribution to this debate, by saying that at £1k it may be better to go for a good MTM solution.

Most of the other comments here add nothing to the real question; either this is a place where intellectual grandiose abounds, or it is a place where relevant advice can be sought and given, helping the person asking the question to find an optimum outcome.

In everyday life, nobody compares Lafitte with Musar.......

[alden]

Aston

Have to agree with you. The OPs question was lost in the cross fire.

There are many MTM products in the OPs price range but I am unsure of the availability of soft tailored MTM in London. Steed and Mahon have MTM products but are they soft? I don't know the answer. In Italy one can find it.

Maybe we will get an answer from Edwin or Matt...

Cheers

[bond_and_beyond]

Aston and Alden,

I agree that the OP's actual question remains unanswered.

I would like to note that the reason for me for participating in this thread was merely to attempt to counter a very, in my view, one sided criticism of Graham Browne. This criticism was based on one suit posted on another forum, along with an LL member's alleging to have seen suits GB had made for 'two friends'. Even though four LL members responded on this thread with positive experiences of GB, the impression of GB I fear that this thread could leave future readers who might be looking for their first (or a new) tailor is very negative. I find that to be unfair.

As I think Alden has pointed in various threads on this forum it is always hard to evaluate clothes on still photos alone (even though I think there is no doubt that the particular suit in question should never have left the shop), and that one should be careful to jump to conclusions, and certainly not generalise.

BB

[aston]

There is another interesting point to this discussion.

I am fortunate to have an absolutely BRILLIANT bespoke trained alterations tailor who works nearby. He does not make any more, but is a wizard with his nips and tucks. So, if I get a "knocker" made for about £1k, and it is not "perfect", rather than faff around, I take it to him, and for less than £100, he makes it perfect. That makes a £1K commission work for me.

If I get a "real" SR commission, I fully expect it to tick all the boxes.

Life is too short............

[davidhuh]

In everyday life, nobody compares Lafitte with Musar.......

- indeed! Although I admit to like both (drinking the obvious one more frequently). But thank you Aston!

Cheers, david

[MRJ]

To respond to Astons comments the original question was about a tailor to make up a suit at non west end prices- see original posting. I have no idea where the £1k no came from. I offered some suggestions for lower cost bespoke and others suggested MtM as an option- all good worthy advice

[aston]

Hello MRJ

I suspect that, once you had proposed Graham Browne in a very early post on this thread, the £1k price point established itself, and things went from there.

I still believe it would be interesting for folk who are edging towards bespoke, but who cannot stretch £2k, £2.5k or over for a single garment at this early stage in their journey, to have a good idea where to look, either for a bespoke, with compromises, at the £1k level, or MTM at the same or a little above.

I confess to having a couple of real cheap RTW suits which, with the wizadry of my alterations guy, fit really very well, and deal with the early morning flight/taxi/meeting/taxi/late eveing flight thing perfectly. But they may only last a year or so.

I think advice, something which contributors here are able to give in spades, is a good thing.

[JIMD]

Hello & Good Evening to All
I am a new member to the LL, I find it quite stimulating to read all the comments and banter of the back & forth of the merits of the GB suiting made. I am not British or from the UK but from across the pond as you say, from Brooklyn NY to be exact. I can tell you in my honest and humble opinion that based of the pictures of the gentlemen with his suit "That dog dosen't hunt". It's off in the way it appears & presents itself on the young man.
Look I have had RTW/OTR suits with minor adjustments made that looked much better than what this poor fellow paid for in this his new baby. I have been lucky enough to have had a local tailor of European desent
that was highly skilled & trained but is working as a alteration tailor to make any and all adjustments with striking precision like a laser on anything that I gave him. Now since GB is supposedly a very good house from what has transpired on this link; I blame them 100% for putting their name & reputation on that product going out the door period! Where is the tailor/cutters pride ? If I was him I would fuss over it like a mother hen to get it rite so I can have a new customer for many years of new "commissions" as you fondly say. That did not happen someone should get their "knickers in a twist" for that. I was planning to get a suit made by GB when I
got to London this year, now I am not so sure. Where & what has GB said publicly about this, I am sure that they read these threads ? What would they propose, Lets hear from them its about time. I enjoy your gentlemens company on LL. Keep up the good work in your post.
Jim D

[lxlloyd]

We are having a pleasant Sunday morning discussion here. But the GB flyer photos are on normally built clothes models and fit very "quick". These models can put on anything. And the photo of the "real" customer is what happens in "real life". The customers suit is not good.

Well said. This. It might well be the case that that SF poster, as well as my two friends had a harder anatomical structure to fit, and GB, with their house blocks, wasn't able to deal with that?

Thanks BB, though, for sharing your feedback on GB.

I agree with Frank. It is the cutters knowledge of how to use his blocks that is relevant. Blocks are a tool like measuring tape. In some cases, it is more natural to ignore them and use common sense. In some cases, people essentially use non physical ones if they start with certain figures and then adjust them. In some cases, if a skilled cutter who knows how to craft a pattern from his blocks has a customer that needs only mild alterations, and likes working with that process, then it is a sensible and valid tool. It essentially depends on training, how the brain works, and a case by case analysis.

Criticising the use of blocks altogether is a bit like criticising someones rulers. A block is different from a pattern; It's a bit like the sausages an artist may draw before filling in the details of a figure... If the artist left the sausages I would be bemused. IF you have a bad block, yes, that can affect the suit. In the same way that not having accurate measures would. But that is why someone should take care when making their blocks (and probably spends as much time as on a pattern, in early days at least). In some cases, if you would be making so many alterations that starting with a block is useless, it's the equivalent of realising your sausages are proportioned completely skewy and starting from a new sheet of paper. Few alterations=a less personalised cut. More alterations=your cutter messed up alot or a more personalised cut or a very tricky customer. If a house is taking the measurements of the blocks (essentially the standardised sizing of a mannequin) and not altering them then.... either you are very peculiarly proportioned, or you have a poor cutter.

(I am now hungry from using the word sausages in repetition)

I don't know a single patterncutter, even in the most ill fitting mass-market companies that I have come across, who doesn't alter *slightly* from their blocks when making a pattern. (actually in the mass market, they don't use blocks at all, they take clothes, measure them, and make the patterns by copying that). You wouldn't have the correct ease or seam allowance for a start. and would come up with something along the lines of.... http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ludfe ... o1_500.jpg (That is avante-garde design house Maison Martin Margiela making a joke out of the entire clothing industry by producing a collection based on the blocking of stockman mannequins. for reference.)

as to the OP: One answer could be a decent MTM and finding a good alterations tailor, as has been suggested. I believe Michael suggested that " Steed and Mahon have MTM products but are they soft? I don't know the answer. In Italy one can find it." So perhaps it would be best to compare Michael's sources with travel time from Monaco? Italy is not that large a country with the trains (nor indeed with a speedboat).

[old henry]

A good tailor with sound blocks could make a well fitting suit for David Merrick. Or Quaii Moto.

[bond_and_beyond]

As the issue of "house blocks" arose in connection with GB, I should note that they do not use house blocks, but make individual paper patterns.

BB

[old henry]

An individual pattern is made from the block just the same as and individual pattern can be drafted. Raphael has individual paper for all of his customers and he uses Blocks. Maurizzio had Individual paper for all of his customers and he made them from blocks.It does not matter. Individual patterns are made from blocks or drafting. I have individual patterns for all of my customers. Some are made from blocks..some are drafted. .. blocks or draft.. It does not make one bit of difference. It does not matter at all.. It is the lack of expertise on the "tailors" part. A good block is as good as a good draft.. such as the Mitchell System.. if the tailor knows his business. Blocks vs Draft is not an issue. Individual paper patterns are made from blocks and drafts. I just want the correct information to be on the LL.

[rogiercreemers]

For some reason, I had to think of an old tailor joke:

A gentleman goes to his tailor to try on a new bespoke suit. The first thing he notices is that the left arm is too long.
"No problem," says the tailor. "Just bend it at the elbow and hold them out in front of you. See, now it's fine."
"But the collar is up around my ears!"
"It's nothing. Just hunch your back up a little . . . no, a little more. . . . that's it."
"But I'm stepping on my cuffs!" our chap cries in desperation.
"Well, bend your knees a little to take up the slack. There you go. Look in the mirror -- the suit fits perfectly."
And so, our man lurches out onto the street. Two fellows see him go by.
"Oh, look," says the one, "that poor man!"
"Yes," says the other, "but his tailor is a genius!"