Aging Cigars

[iammatt]

Do the cigar smokers in the lounge age or not?

As with wine, tobacco aging seems to have regional norms. The British tend to like their Havanas after ten or so years in the humdor. They also tend to store and age cigars at cooler temperatures, which affects the aging process. The end result is a cigar that does not have great combustion for the first half, and has the aroma of cheese. On the other hand, once you are into the meat of the cigar, it is far more complex than you will ever find in a fresh smoke.

The polar opposite are the Spaniards. They are the biggest consumers of Havanas in the world. It isn't even close. They tend to smoke their cigars as soon as they get into spain. I find Spanish market Havanas to be bold, chocolatey and often one dimensional.

Personally, I like to age some Havana brands, while others I find are best when fresh. The best fresh havana for me is the Cohiba, as the second fermentation of the wrappers adds a complexity that usually comes only with time. That being said, other than the Lancero, I am no great fan of the Cohiba brand. Conversely, Partagas and Bolivar need a lot of age. When fresh, they tend to be tight, powerful and have enough nicotine that they can make you a bit dizzy. The aged 898 varnished may be the most complex cigar in the world, but you would never know it at inception. Five years is good for these brands. Occupying the middle ground of aging are my favorite brands. I can smoke Punch and Robainas at almost any time in their lifecycle, and they are terrific. That being said, I prefer at least a year of age, as the draw and combustion improves as the filler, wrapper and binder dehumidify to the same point.

As an aside, their are two experiences in the realm of the Havana that defy the above observations. First, when in Cuba, a cigar that is freshly rolled, or one that is less than about a week, is an absolute dream to smoke. After that they go into the yearlong dead period that I mention above. Second, the remaining stocks of Davidoff numbers one and two are among the finest cigars available (or unavailable as the case may be). The chateau line, for me, has lost too much potency at this point, but the Laguito shapes are still magnificent.

I would be interested to hear if my experiences are similar to others out there.

[uppercase]

The subject of aging cigars is interesting, particularly as I used to think that the fresher (i.e., younger) the cigar, the better.

This impression was based on having enjoyed a few cigars freshly brought over from Cuba and having found these so much more tasty than the Cubans I am used to buying in the local stores which had been in inventory for a while.

Perhaps, the store bought cigars were in that 1 year dead period that you mention; in any case, the fresh Cubans really tasted so much better.

Having said that, I don't think that any of the local tobacco stores invest in storing cigars; they sell their cigars just as soon as they receive them. And, personally, since I'm only an occassional smoker, have never thought to lay down cigars as one would with wine.

Ofcourse it would be great to actually taste properly aged cigars and I wonder if there are tobacconists who sell these?

Also, what do you prefer drinking with your cigars?

[TVD]

Dunhill in London used to offer (I have not been for years, so I cannot tell whether it is still true) storage facilities for its regulars, so you could age your cigars in optimal conditions. However, given they were the first port of call for most of the city boys, sometimes they had a rather depleted offering during the boom / shortage of the late nineties.

Davidoff across the road (which is owned by the most charming Edward Sahakian) always had a stunning selection. I never enquired whether they had storage facilities.

[alden]

Dunhill does have storage facilities for ageing purposes. Their selection is impressive, so is the price of the Cubans given our high UK taxes.

[iammatt]

Uppercase-

As most of my cigar smoking is after lunch, I drink an espresso or mineral water with my cigars. Given the choice of beverages, I would still probably prefer espresso. I tend to think that most really good spirits when mixed with cigars end up being too much.

[upmann]

Do the cigar smokers in the lounge age or not?

As with wine, tobacco aging seems to have regional norms. The British tend to like their Havanas after ten or so years in the humdor. They also tend to store and age cigars at cooler temperatures, which affects the aging process. The end result is a cigar that does not have great combustion for the first half, and has the aroma of cheese. On the other hand, once you are into the meat of the cigar, it is far more complex than you will ever find in a fresh smoke.

The polar opposite are the Spaniards. They are the biggest consumers of Havanas in the world. It isn't even close. They tend to smoke their cigars as soon as they get into spain. I find Spanish market Havanas to be bold, chocolatey and often one dimensional.

Personally, I like to age some Havana brands, while others I find are best when fresh. The best fresh havana for me is the Cohiba, as the second fermentation of the wrappers adds a complexity that usually comes only with time. That being said, other than the Lancero, I am no great fan of the Cohiba brand. Conversely, Partagas and Bolivar need a lot of age. When fresh, they tend to be tight, powerful and have enough nicotine that they can make you a bit dizzy. The aged 898 varnished may be the most complex cigar in the world, but you would never know it at inception. Five years is good for these brands. Occupying the middle ground of aging are my favorite brands. I can smoke Punch and Robainas at almost any time in their lifecycle, and they are terrific. That being said, I prefer at least a year of age, as the draw and combustion improves as the filler, wrapper and binder dehumidify to the same point.

As an aside, their are two experiences in the realm of the Havana that defy the above observations. First, when in Cuba, a cigar that is freshly rolled, or one that is less than about a week, is an absolute dream to smoke. After that they go into the yearlong dead period that I mention above. Second, the remaining stocks of Davidoff numbers one and two are among the finest cigars available (or unavailable as the case may be). The chateau line, for me, has lost too much potency at this point, but the Laguito shapes are still magnificent.

I would be interested to hear if my experiences are similar to others out there.

I think it could be interested for you to know something about italians norms on the theme of aging havana cigars.
I talk about my experience in the world of italians cigaraficionados. We used to buy fresh cigars to storage in our own humidors for years. Unfortunately in Italy we don't have a great tradition in cigar merchants like London (i.e. Dunhill, Sautter etc.) and the UK.
Personally I used to storage to a low temperature and low humidity (17° - 65% r.h.) my cigars. Doing so the process of fermentation is very slow and the aromas will blossom very rich for years. Every brand of havana cigar has its own evolution of the characteristic of the smoke: some brands are ready to smoke in three years, others in eight, ten or more. I used to age brands like Quay d'Orsay, Hoyo de Monterrey, Juan Lopez at least for three years; brands like Sancho Panza, Romeo y Julieta, Vegas Robaina at least for four years; brands like H.Upmann, Bolivar, Partagas, Saint Luis Rey, El Rey del Mundo, Trinidad, Cohiba at least for five years, and so on. It's interesting to point out that this period may vary in order to quality of the tobacco and in order to the "tamaño" (the shape of the cigar). I used to smoke some cigars from a batch to establish the storage they need to get the smoke I like. The characteristic of the smoke of havana cigars vary with cigar aging. For the first years the smoke is tannic and vegetable. After a good period of humidor (3-4 years) the smoke is more complex and aromatic. During the next years the smoke loose aroma and gain strengh and smoothing.

[alden]

Dear Upmann,

I would like to wish you welcome to the londonlounge. For the benefit of our members and its guests, it is a great pleasure to have a cigar expert in our company.

www.calledelaindustria520.org

Your club dedicated to cigars and the elegant sampling of same is a tremendous resource. Our Italian speakers will be enjoying it immediately. Our non-Italian speakers are already signing up for ltalian grammar lessons.

Your comments regarding ageing of Havanas is very interesting. I leave my cigars to age in general for at least three years and the merits of same cannot be understated. Many of our readers live in the US where access to Havanas is limited. What are your thoughts about ageing strategies for Dominican or Honduran cigars?

Benvenuto egregio Dottore Upmann.

A presto

M Alden

[iammatt]

Upmann-

That is a fascinating post. I am interested in a couple of other things regarding the Italian market cigars.

First, are the cigars in Italy closer to the almost maduro Spanish market selection, or are they more like the EMS Havanas?

Second, is cigar smoking in Italy on the upswing? I ask this because I have often been disappointed in the conditions of the cigars that I have smoked in Italy. This has typically been at hotels (the Gritti in Venice was the worst), and the cigars were either bone dry, or soggy. I would be thrilled to hear that Havanas have increased in popularity and that conditions are getting much better.

Third, you mentioned ERDM in the brands that you like to age a long time. I have always found them to be rather light cigars, and have never really contemplated aging them. Do they really improve a lot. I have a box of Tainos that is seven or so years old, maybe I will try one this evening and see for myself.

Finally, what are the most beloved sizes in Italy. I find that in England, the robusto, the piamide, and the churchill are favored. In France and Switzerland, you tend to see many more coronas and smaller being enjoyed. What are your personal feelings on this.

Again, thanks for the above post and thank you in advance for enlightening us on any of my questions.

[upmann]

Dear Upmann,

I would like to wish you welcome to the londonlounge. For the benefit of our members and its guests, it is a great pleasure to have a cigar expert in our company.

www.calledelaindustria520.org

Your club dedicated to cigars and the elegant sampling of same is a tremendous resource. Our Italian speakers will be enjoying it immediately. Our non-Italian speakers are already signing up for ltalian grammar lessons.

Your comments regarding ageing of Havanas is very interesting. I leave my cigars to age in general for at least three years and the merits of same cannot be understated. Many of our readers live in the US where access to Havanas is limited. What are your thoughts about ageing strategies for Dominican or Honduran cigars?

Benvenuto egregio Dottore Upmann.

A presto

M Alden

Thank you for your kind words.
In order to aging strategies of Domican, Honduran etc. cigars, I believe that they all need two or three years of humidor. In my opinion the differences with havana cigars are of two species. First these cigars after three/four years reach the top level of maturity: the peak of the parabola. After that they loose flavours and strenght. Second they don't have qualities to survive for decades: this is the characteristic of great havana cigars. An havana cigar three years old, normally is a baby. A dominican cigar of three years old is mature. This rule has its own exceptions: I think that Padron cigars (Nicaraguan tobacco), for example, have the quality to live for many many years.
This is only my opinion. I think that every cigar aficionado has his own taste, experiences, cultural background: I invite you all to experiment with aging cigars for a long time.
Arrivederci, Upmann

[upmann]

Upmann-

That is a fascinating post. I am interested in a couple of other things regarding the Italian market cigars.

First, are the cigars in Italy closer to the almost maduro Spanish market selection, or are they more like the EMS Havanas?

Second, is cigar smoking in Italy on the upswing? I ask this because I have often been disappointed in the conditions of the cigars that I have smoked in Italy. This has typically been at hotels (the Gritti in Venice was the worst), and the cigars were either bone dry, or soggy. I would be thrilled to hear that Havanas have increased in popularity and that conditions are getting much better.

Third, you mentioned ERDM in the brands that you like to age a long time. I have always found them to be rather light cigars, and have never really contemplated aging them. Do they really improve a lot. I have a box of Tainos that is seven or so years old, maybe I will try one this evening and see for myself.

Finally, what are the most beloved sizes in Italy. I find that in England, the robusto, the piamide, and the churchill are favored. In France and Switzerland, you tend to see many more coronas and smaller being enjoyed. What are your personal feelings on this.

Again, thanks for the above post and thank you in advance for enlightening us on any of my questions.

Thank you for your interest in my post.
I think that nowadays we're living in a true revolutionary era of havana's world. In a few years everything's changed.
The cigars in Spain are similiar to cigars sold everywhere in the world: as usual the quality depends from batch to batch. Spaniards have different tastes: they prefer strengh and cheap tobacco. In Italy if you smoke an havana cigar this is a premium if you smoke a cheap cigar this is a Toscano.

In this last two years I find the quality of havana cigars terrific: is this a new golden age?

In UK and Switzerland the quality remain to the top as usual because of the double selection: the first in Cuba and the second in the destination countries.
(I remember with nostalgia a great box of Partagas Shorts bought in Edinburgh ten years ago).

In Italy we're living a revolution in the revolutionary havana's world. You're right saying that normally in Hotels the conditions of the cigars are very sad but nowadays you can find many great tobbaconists with a choice of cigars similar or superior to that you can find in every civil country. I used to buy cigars everywhere in Europe and in Cuba and let me say that in a few years, we'll have cigaraficionados coming to Italy to buy great havana cigars at good prices (similar to the Switzerand) from all over Europe. In general the quality is high.

Unfortunately we've to fight against a terrible anti-smoke law. But this is another story.

ERDM is a great theme of discussion. I think that this tobacco has great capacity of aging for decades. And it's the demostration that aging capacities don't depend on the strengh of the tobacco itself. You're a wise man: smoke your Tainos (the greatest of ELDM nowadays) right now and let me know.

In Italy the most beloved brand is Partagas while the preferred sizes are robustos, pyramides, petit coronas.
My favourites are double coronas, churchills, laguito and pyramides. Excuse me for my bad english.

[upmann]

Gentlemen,
I want to introduce you a great cigar: El Rey del Mundo Lonsdales.
The box I'm talking about was produced in Romeo y Julieta factory in 1991 (code: BM OVSN) and bought in november 2004 from an auction (Christie's - £. 300).
This is an elegant smoke: light and smooth with a subtle woody taste. Only cigars made with superior raw materials can reach with age this subtle, complex, and never ending taste.
Smoking a cigar like this we can say without any doubt: it's not always true that a strong cigar is able to age better that a light one. (ELdM is obiously considered a light brand). This is the message of this post.
Kind regards.