How can I refine my second suit? Pics included

[marburyvmadison]

Will be visiting my tailor for another summer suit (whilst I'm having a heavier suit made up somewhere else), and I was hoping for some opinions on what I should instruct my tailor to do differently with regards to my next suit.

I'm identified, possibly, a few areas to be looked into, but I wanted to bounce some ideas off people here before telling the tailor how to do his job

1) More underarm drape and, very slightly more drape on the top. Is this necessary to create a look like in picture 4?

2) Perhaps, very slightly wider shoulder?

3) Will the slight drape on the top will create a slightly more pinched waist? Would that be appropriate. Reference picture 4

4) Should I request for a higher button stance?

*5) What I also need direction about is on the way the quarters are opening. After referencing pictures of open quarters as seen in pictures 2 and 3 below, it *seems* that the quarters for this coat of mine is *cut* open, and looks to be unnatural to me. I don't know if I'm correct in saying this, or if it's just me over-thinking things. It's also slightly more rounded?

If this is a problem, how should I advice my tailor to address this issue?

Pardon the partial undress, this is a picture from some time ago --



Picture 2 and 3 (Of examples of open quarters that are different from mine)


Picture 4 (A shape I quite like, with, perhaps, slightly open quarters)--

[Russell]

Although I know (well think I know) what I like I'm not qualified to comment on your first 4 points but regarding the 5th I do have a thought.

The fronts ('quarters') on photos 2 & 3 give the impression of opening in a very natural & attractive manner. Nothing looks 'forced' or false. The quarters on your coat however appear to open more due to the shape of the hem (as you say) rather than the cut of the whole garment - a bit 'forced' in effect. The shortness of your coat makes this more apparent; a longer coat simply has more space to open out naturally if designed to do so (not everyone wants that of course).

The coat in the 4th photo is quite 'closed' to my eyes & not something I'd go for but I'd still admire someone else wearing it.

Small details though, I'm sure your suit gives you a lot of satisfaction.

Suits are fine but now you are getting to the interesting stuff - sportscoats

Regards
Russell

 

[Concordia]

I don't believe that drape up top implies a pinched-in waist. [Is #4 a Kilgour?]

One thing to explore is the length of the jacket. Yours looks pretty short, from what little your photo shows. More length would take care of much of what you're seeing as disproportionate button stance.

[marburyvmadison]

Thank you Russell, for your objective criticism. Glad to know it wasn't me over-thinking things.

Concordia, so I'd have to ask for a slightly more pinched waist, if I would like to achieve the effect as depicted in 4, a coat cut by Henry Poole? Do you think it to be exaggerated? Or is it just because it's on a mannequin?

Do look at this picture 5. The coat is cut open and is not natural like in 2, 3. But, perhaps there's more of a continuity in the 'roundness' of the coat.

[alden]

Mvm

I would not touch that coat much. Looks pretty good to me.

Just learn to wear it well. Start by doing something about that shirt.

I do not think the coat in picture 4 is for you. It looks too structured. It might make you look a few inches shorter than you are. A softer make will have the opposite effect. Tall and short men should err on the side of ample in their clothes.

Cheers

[Rowly]

I think pic. 1 is a nice fit in the shoulders...but much too short in the body ( it barely reaches below your wrists). Pic 5 is a nicer length, but I think the shoulders are too small which also causes the lack of smoothness in the fall of the sleeves. I think the shoulders from pic 1 and the length of pic 5 will leave you with a great result. However, I would be interested to hear the expert opinion of our professional tailors. Good luck!

[marburyvmadison]

Am re-reading this -- http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... ?f=4&t=208

The Duke's coat, is cut shorter, with quarters resembling pic 5, and as was indicated in the thread, partly due to his shorter stature. Makes me wonder if I ought to go for something that would frame my body better, as opposed to relying on 'rules' per se.



I think I spent more time on reading up on sartorial 'rules' than on studying the law, as what I ought to be doing. How terribly distracting.

[alden]

Mvm

If you study that thread you should come away with some very clear ideas.

That picture of Windsor is illuminating. Here is a man barely 5'2"...does he look it? The men standing near him probably towered over him, but it does not seem so. And all the men near him must have been men of particular merit to be there, and yet they all look like truck drivers compared to the to be King. Superb style.

Cheers

[rogiercreemers]

It also seems to me that on this picture, the Duke is wearing a two-button coat with a higher buttoning point, cut to close both buttons. I find this a highly elegant cut which, unfortunately, is rarely seen. Would other members have more examples of this?

[old henry]

Im sorry the divert the topic but can anyone tell me who the big fell next to the Duke might be.
As a tailor I admire this fine fitting coat on this very big man. The chest is very well housed.

[hectorm]

...wonder if I ought to go for something that would frame my body better, as opposed to relying on 'rules' per se.

But precisely MVM, what the main rule says is "go for something that would frame your body better".
In your case I humbly believe that you will be able to refine your second suit if you move on the following lines:
i) cut your jacket substantially longer. At least an extra 1.5 inches. This will give the coat a better balance overall. It will also allow some room to play with the button stance for the 3 buttons that you plan to commission, without shortening the lapel too much.
ii) the 3 button stance would not be my first choice for your frame. But if you do go for it, make sure it's a 3 roll 2 with some serious rolling of the lapel down to the middle button.
iii) I sense some tension underlying in the jacket in picture 1. I think you were right in wondering if more drape was needed. I suspect that a bit of more draping on top and underarm could be beneficial. Of course, this draping would be more difficult to achieve elegantly with a very light cloth. Other things equal, a rich, heavier cloth is an almost automatic ticket to refining your next suits.
Thank you for posting the pictures, for your openness to advice and for your confidence in LL members.

[marburyvmadison]

It also seems to me that on this picture, the Duke is wearing a two-button coat with a higher buttoning point, cut to close both buttons. I find this a highly elegant cut which, unfortunately, is rarely seen. Would other members have more examples of this?

I believe it's called a paddock coat -- http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/paddock-suit/

[marburyvmadison]

Would you regard the 3-button as being suited for tall men? I was thinking about a three button (with the roll reaching the first button, giving me the option to button it though I do not intend to). But would that necessarily be unsuitable for my frame?

Here's a picture of one of the Japanese emperors, whom, I'm fairly certain, is short. I think he is sporting a three button jacket.

*On second look, maybe it's a two-button.

...wonder if I ought to go for something that would frame my body better, as opposed to relying on 'rules' per se.

But precisely MVM, what the main rule says is "go for something that would frame your body better".
In your case I humbly believe that you will be able to refine your second suit if you move on the following lines:
i) cut your jacket substantially longer. At least an extra 1.5 inches. This will give the coat a better balance overall. It will also allow some room to play with the button stance for the 3 buttons that you plan to commission, without shortening the lapel too much.
ii) the 3 button stance would not be my first choice for your frame. But if you do go for it, make sure it's a 3 roll 2 with some serious rolling of the lapel down to the middle button.
iii) I sense some tension underlying in the jacket in picture 1. I think you were right in wondering if more drape was needed. I suspect that a bit of more draping on top and underarm could be beneficial. Of course, this draping would be more difficult to achieve elegantly with a very light cloth. Other things equal, a rich, heavier cloth is an almost automatic ticket to refining your next suits.
Thank you for posting the pictures, for your openness to advice and for your confidence in LL members.

[marburyvmadison]

It also seems to me that on this picture, the Duke is wearing a two-button coat with a higher buttoning point, cut to close both buttons. I find this a highly elegant cut which, unfortunately, is rarely seen. Would other members have more examples of this?

Tempted to get one like this made up, but am concerned it's anachronistic.

[rogiercreemers]

Any anachronism would depend on much more than button stance alone. A well-cut suit, not too slim, not too full, with its parts in good proportion will always look right, regardless of exactly where the buttons are. Now, adding a boater, co-respondent shoes, a starched and pinned collar and a whangee should not be done outside Oxford.