Good shirtmaker in UK

[cathach]

I had some reservations on unwrapping it, but after laundering it, my worst fears were proven. The poor stitching has (along with the linings in the collar and placket) shrunk differentially to the (poor) fabric of the shirt itself. It is a sorry excuse for a garment.

Yikes, sounds like the rot of marketeering at work here, leveraging a brand and such-like. But why risk devaluing your product by knowingly licensing your name to an inferior make? Quite odd.

Another thing I might raise is the craze for ''stitches per inch'': in all my time wearing shirts of all marks and makes, I've never had a seam give out on me. In all cases the cloth itself has worn away before a stitch has come loose. So perhaps we could cast a cold eye on that indicator?

And for those with their finger on the pulse of London's shirtmakers, England Expects.....!

[Scot]

and I don't think any London shirtmaker, with the exception of Emma Willis, is worth a try.

I may be butting in uninvited but this seems rather a blanket statement. Any supporting evidence?
Frog in Suit

It's actually a ridiculous statement.

[Kayak81]

...

...

... I'm genuinely surprised to hear that about Geneva. I found Eugene very easy to deal with. He got almost every order right and the one mistake he made (a pocket on a shirt that shouldn't have had one) was completely corrected.

I'm guessing you like a pretty loose fit so I have no idea how well they do that. I prefer something that looks fitted but that I could play tennis in and they nailed that.

I found Atam at Paris to be annoying to deal with - never had things done when he said they were, etc.

Now that I'm in London, I'm not sure what I'll do. Eugene didn't seem to keen on a long distance relationship and I don't think any London shirtmaker, with the exception of Emma Willis, is worth a try. Since her shirts are 400GBP or something crazy like that I'll probably have a look at the Italians or maybe Ascot Chang though they come here very infrequently.

I dealt with the son of the older man at Geneva, but I'm not sure what his name was. I do prefer a looser fit and I made that clear, but he completely ignored my requests and then argued with me when I brought the shirt back to talk about the fit. One small example: I had requested a button-down collar with an old-fashioned BB roll to it. A few minutes later when discussing the features, he suggested 3" collar points and I accepted his advice. When I brought the shirt back and pointed out that there was no roll to the collar, he said that I should have ordered longer collar points. Aside from all of the problems I had, it wasn't the type of place where I would feel comfortable just stopping in to go through the fabric books for an hour or so.

Thanks for the feedback on Paris. Aside from finding them annoying to deal with, what did you think of the quality and fit of their shirts?

[Cantabrigian]

Might be easier to do the two as separate posts.

Geneva
Mike is the father - I've seen him there but never spoken to him. He was always busy and Eugene (the son) is the one I was accustomed to dealing with.

I believe Mike's first language is not English so that could be a possible explanation or he could be every bit as iracible as he seemed to be in your experience. Eugene is a smart guy and very responsive. It isn't a 'suits you sir' sort of place but I prefer not to pay for theater at the shirtmaker.

I agree that it isn't the sort of place you stop by and spend an hour going through cloth books (not that most people could possibly spend that long doing that). They're by appointment and more of a factory than a lounge which is reflected in the price. (And that's a trade I'm very happy to make.)

Though they did just move into a much nicer place uptown. I guess the shirts will be going up 25% soon since I have to think their rent went up at least that much. Hopefully not though.

I know a number of people here who each know a lot about all the makers in NY and they seem to think highly of Geneva. I'd suggest maybe reaching out to Eugene.

[Cantabrigian]

Paris

I'd stress that I absolutely think you should avoid them. It wasn't just the hassle it was that Atam was distinctly dishonest. Every time I went for a fitting it was telling him every change that needed to be made to the shirt and listening to an (invariably unfulfilled) promise that it would be ready soon.

Customer service was a Southern-Italian level of sloppy.

Construction was good. Seams were straight and plenty of stitches / in. No flaws I could see.

Fit was ho-hum. They eventually got something okay but it took forever and was worse than Hemrajani.

Last time I was there (2006), they didn't offer Alumo which for me would - today - be a dealbreaker.

[Cantabrigian]

So I've taken Alden's recommendation and reached out to Mary.

Her English is very good and the price is reasonable. Not Geneva reasonable but the shirt will have some handwork apparently (not that I'm especially into that sort of thing).

Looking forward to seeing what comes of it.

[Badden]

So I've taken Alden's recommendation and reached out to Mary.

Her English is very good and the price is reasonable. Not Geneva reasonable but the shirt will have some handwork apparently (not that I'm especially into that sort of thing).

Looking forward to seeing what comes of it.

So, you'll fly to Paris or Tuscany for the fittings?

[Badden]

Fwiw, Mike does deal with customers at Geneva, but he has an eye towards eventually transitioning his business to his son. Thus, he refers all new clients to Eugene rather than taking them on himself.

I have always found Geneva great to work with.

[Concordia]

This is veering off the original question, but I'd have to second that opinion of Paris/NY. Atam's sense of color is very good, and craftsmanship is comparable to decent London shirts. But I never did like the fit of what I got. No objectively egregious mistakes, but the arm/shoulder connection never did sit right, and mobility suffered. When I asked for some type of adjustment so I could raise my arms without pulling the cuff out of place, Atam just said essentially that it was pointless to try to solve that problem since suit jackets aren't tailored well enough to deal with it.

[Cantabrigian]

So I've taken Alden's recommendation and reached out to Mary.

Her English is very good and the price is reasonable. Not Geneva reasonable but the shirt will have some handwork apparently (not that I'm especially into that sort of thing).

Looking forward to seeing what comes of it.

So, you'll fly to Paris or Tuscany for the fittings?

Initially the train to Paris. I could do that pretty easily in half a day (which is is concern since I'm not a man of leisure) but it would be nice to see another part of Italy.

[cathach]

Veering off the original topic and seeing as the UK makers have been fairly threshed out for the moment, are there members who could give details or pointers on shirtmakers in Italy or France?

[Badden]

^ I have used 2 well regarded Southern Italian shirtmakers and was a bit disappointed by the style (the service was very good). Their default cut is narrow shoulders, a tight chest and a loose waist.

I think many (most?) of us would prefer the inverse - a looser, draped chest with a streamlined waist. So, be aware of their regional preferences and let your stylistic choices be known at the very first meeting.

No experience with French shirtmakers.

[dempsy444]

You could consider Ascot Chang of Hong Kong, either with their travelling cutter who travels to New York with tailor Gordon Yao several times a year, or visit their New York store.

110 Central Park South, New York

I have only patronised their Hong Kong business, which I think is cheaper than their US operation. The fit was reasonably good and the price quite acceptable, about the same as a good quality RTW shirt. It's not Charvet but I would say it is good value for money.

I've had a good experience with Ascot Chang as well. I've found that the quality is fairly high, and the service friendly and efficient.

[Concordia]

I've posted elsewhere about my varied (currently very good) experience with Ascot Chang.

One additional benefit I discovered yesterday-- they will do CMT of client's own fabric for only $100/shirt.

Since their all-in prices do approach London and Paris levels at the expensive end, it would therefore seem that fabric prices are much higher in HK than in Europe. Whether that is due to taxation, middleman mark-ups, or AC's own sense of what they can charge their most affluent customers, I could not say.

[Kayak81]

I've posted elsewhere about my varied (currently very good) experience with Ascot Chang.

One additional benefit I discovered yesterday-- they will do CMT of client's own fabric for only $100/shirt.

Since their all-in prices do approach London and Paris levels at the expensive end, it would therefore seem that fabric prices are much higher in HK than in Europe. Whether that is due to taxation, middleman mark-ups, or AC's own sense of what they can charge their most affluent customers, I could not say.

Concordia, thanks for this information. Is this in the NY store or another location? I exchanged a few emails with Thomas in NY, and he said they won't work with a customer's own fabric. In a way this made sense to me, as there would be delays and additional shipping costs to send the fabric to HK. I've been debating whether or not to give Ascot Chang a try. Their prices seem equivalent to Sean O'Flynn's for basic fabrics, but quickly mount as you get into more expensive cloth. For example, Sean charges GBP185/USD$300 for most fabrics and GBP220/USD$355 for a shirt from Alumo Cashmerello. AC NY charges over $300 for basic fabrics and the costs mount quickly from there. For example, their price for Cashmerello is a tad under $770.

In the end and despite the problems I've had, I decided to give Sean one more try. I had planned to try Ascot Chang as well, but only for their less expensive fabrics. Could you send me details of who you spoke with at AC? I've been holding off buying any LL linen until I can find a shirtmaker that I'm completely happy with.