Hello,
This is my first post on this forum as I have only recently joined as a member.
I am looking to order a SB suit which would need to fulfill a number of functions. First my daughter is getting married in October of this year and the suit needs to perform on the day. The wedding is not going to be very formal and the only specification which my daughter has set is that the colour needs to be mid-grey to compliment if not match the groom's suit. Now I would like to wear the suit for 10-15 years after the wedding so it needs to fit in with my normal life style. I rarely wear formal suits to my office (other than board meetings, AGMs etc) and I would like the suit to look good when worn without a tie. Also, I am in my mid-50's and therefore need a style which I can wear without embarassement when I am in my late 60's.
To reduce the formality of the suit and to make it less of a 'business suit' I was thinking of a medium weight flannel. Speaking to Foxes and Smith & Co. they both stated that even light weight worsted flannels should wear well. This seems to be contradictory to some earlier postings on this forum. Any suggestions on a suitable cloth would be much appreciated.
I have some limited experience of bespoke previously - several suits by tailors outside London, a Timothy Evererest tweed two-piece SB and a wonderful pair of bespoke ankle boots by Jason Amesbury for my 50th birthday. John Pearse has made me several shirts in the past and I have been very pleased with them - particularly his interpretation of the Hermes 'Indo-Chine' collarless shirt. Mr. Pearse is well known for his more flamboyant styles and fabric choice but I have also seen a few examples of more traditional suits and overcoats that he has made - for the actor John Hurt, for example. Do any members have any experience of John Pearse? It would cost me approx. GBP2,400 to have a suit made - less than Savile Row but a reasonable amount of money for an impoverished Welshman with a wedding to fund.
I look forward to members' comments and observations.
John Pearse
Flannel wears less well than worsted (i.e., will last less long if worn as frequently), but if you don't need it daily or even weekly, that shouldn't be a problem.
Another issue is how much you need it to work in warm or cold weather. Flannels can be HOT in humid weather, but warmer in the winter. If you want a true year-round weight, probably 10oz worsted is the best compromise if you can handle it on your hottest days. It will look a tad insubstantial in the colder weather, but if you have to cope with over-heated rooms you won't be ungrateful. Try Lesser's, or Harrison Frontier. If you go a tad heavier, the mid-grey Brisa (13oz but excellent ventilation) is even better. Don't know if that is sold out.
Another possibility, depending on your need for formality-- some of the tweed books have greys, with or without a discreet over-check. If you go for the flat weaves (not Harris or Shetland, but more like Hartwist) you will get something that wears incredibly well. Whether it's too rural a look for your life in Wales is your call.
Another issue is how much you need it to work in warm or cold weather. Flannels can be HOT in humid weather, but warmer in the winter. If you want a true year-round weight, probably 10oz worsted is the best compromise if you can handle it on your hottest days. It will look a tad insubstantial in the colder weather, but if you have to cope with over-heated rooms you won't be ungrateful. Try Lesser's, or Harrison Frontier. If you go a tad heavier, the mid-grey Brisa (13oz but excellent ventilation) is even better. Don't know if that is sold out.
Another possibility, depending on your need for formality-- some of the tweed books have greys, with or without a discreet over-check. If you go for the flat weaves (not Harris or Shetland, but more like Hartwist) you will get something that wears incredibly well. Whether it's too rural a look for your life in Wales is your call.
Last edited by Concordia on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Try Stephen Hitchcock, his prices are slightly lower and his 'soft' look will match your demands admirably.
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steve buckley
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goodness very expensive!whilst i respect his aesthetic his work is cut and made outside,i now use paul kitsaros close by cleveland st cut,, made ,cut,on premises no hype glamour just agreat suit good luck and congratulations!oh reasonable price!
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Frog in Suit
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My own tailors, Meyer & Mortimer (Jones Chalk & Dawson) charge around 2,500 £ or 2,600 £ for a two-piece suit, not far from the price you quote. They are members of the Savile Row Bespoke Association and the suits are cut and made in-house. Why not try them (they are on Sackville Street, W1)?
Frog in Suit
Frog in Suit
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culverwood
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Having just paid for my daughter's marriage I appreciate the wedding fund line. I wonder if you are a normal shape whether it would be less stressful to buy a RTW suit which fits and to keep the other £1,500-2,000 in the fund.
No, to deny the happy father the pleasure of bespoke is a step too far.culverwood wrote:Having just paid for my daughter's marriage I appreciate the wedding fund line. I wonder if you are a normal shape whether it would be less stressful to buy a RTW suit which fits and to keep the other £1,500-2,000 in the fund.
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Troedyrhiw
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Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. They have certainly given me food for thought.
Dealing with the main points raised:
RTW or bespoke? I have given some thought to buying a 'high end' RTW suit and looked at some available in the UK January sales. I was suprised at the high cost of many 'designer' suits e.g. a Lanvin suit with 40% off that would still cost £850+. Also, I was disappointed at the similarity of most styles offered by Lanvin, Gucci, Prada etc. Not much variety and the styles were, to my eyes anyway, probably more appropriate to a city professional in their twenties rather than a fifty five year old reluctant businessman/frustrated academic living in rural West Wales. Anyway, if I cannot indulge myself for my only daughter's wedding day then when can I ?
Fabric. I will probably not wear the suit more than once or twice a month and so I will probably still favour a fairly light weight flannel. This will, hopefully, help to make the suit less formal and more adaptable i.e. rather more than just a business suit.
Style. Something that will look good with a Hermes or John Pearse shirt and vintage bespoke Peal & Co. loafers but can be 'dressed up' with a vintage Sulka tie for important occasions such as weddings, board meetings etc.
Tailor. I agree that John Pearse is expensive for an off Savile Row tailor who does not make his suits 'in-house'. Certainly Chris Kerr is much cheaper, is based close to Meard Street and has a similar customer base - though perhaps less 'A List'. I note the comments made about the advantages of having the cloth cut and suit made up 'in house' but is this always the case? Is not the quality of the work more important than the location? Jason Amesbury who I used to have my bespoke ankle boots made is really a 'one man band' who is only personally responsible for making the lasts (he is ex-John Lobb). He uses outworkers for everything else but the quality of the finished boots was the equal, in my opinion, of Cleverley, Foster or Lobb. Could the same not hold for bespoke tailoring? I shall probably spend a day in London visiting 2-3 tailors and make my choice after discussing my requirements with them and seeing examples of their work. I have only really put John Pearse at the top of my list because I have some limited experience of his work and I have always found him very approachable and open in my conversations with him.
Many thanks again for all your assistance
p.s. John Hurt was on BBC's 'One Show' (a programme I usually instantly switch off) this evening wearing a rather lovely peaked lapel flannel jacket made, I suspect, by John Pearse.
Dealing with the main points raised:
RTW or bespoke? I have given some thought to buying a 'high end' RTW suit and looked at some available in the UK January sales. I was suprised at the high cost of many 'designer' suits e.g. a Lanvin suit with 40% off that would still cost £850+. Also, I was disappointed at the similarity of most styles offered by Lanvin, Gucci, Prada etc. Not much variety and the styles were, to my eyes anyway, probably more appropriate to a city professional in their twenties rather than a fifty five year old reluctant businessman/frustrated academic living in rural West Wales. Anyway, if I cannot indulge myself for my only daughter's wedding day then when can I ?
Fabric. I will probably not wear the suit more than once or twice a month and so I will probably still favour a fairly light weight flannel. This will, hopefully, help to make the suit less formal and more adaptable i.e. rather more than just a business suit.
Style. Something that will look good with a Hermes or John Pearse shirt and vintage bespoke Peal & Co. loafers but can be 'dressed up' with a vintage Sulka tie for important occasions such as weddings, board meetings etc.
Tailor. I agree that John Pearse is expensive for an off Savile Row tailor who does not make his suits 'in-house'. Certainly Chris Kerr is much cheaper, is based close to Meard Street and has a similar customer base - though perhaps less 'A List'. I note the comments made about the advantages of having the cloth cut and suit made up 'in house' but is this always the case? Is not the quality of the work more important than the location? Jason Amesbury who I used to have my bespoke ankle boots made is really a 'one man band' who is only personally responsible for making the lasts (he is ex-John Lobb). He uses outworkers for everything else but the quality of the finished boots was the equal, in my opinion, of Cleverley, Foster or Lobb. Could the same not hold for bespoke tailoring? I shall probably spend a day in London visiting 2-3 tailors and make my choice after discussing my requirements with them and seeing examples of their work. I have only really put John Pearse at the top of my list because I have some limited experience of his work and I have always found him very approachable and open in my conversations with him.
Many thanks again for all your assistance
p.s. John Hurt was on BBC's 'One Show' (a programme I usually instantly switch off) this evening wearing a rather lovely peaked lapel flannel jacket made, I suspect, by John Pearse.
Enjoy spending time with the tailors. You could also look at A and S or Richard Anderson.
Well, you're certainly getting a lot of advice, but I think rather fewer answers.
As I understand it you will only be ordering one suit and you want some reassurance that you aren't going to regret your choice of tailor.
Unfortunately as far as John Pearse is concerned you are probably in a better position to judge than anyone else here because you are the only one with experience of him.
Think how your interaction with him has been for your shirts. Did he seem very keen to make sure you got something really right for you, something that really fitted you and suited you well? Did he appear ready to start again from scratch if something wasn't right? If so I would say your chances are good you could go ahead. If you suspect any reluctance on his part, bear in mind that if it all goes pear shaped, it is much less painful for a tailor to bin a 150 GBP shirt than a 2500 GBP suit and draw your own conclusions.
Your alternatives I think would be to choose a tailor (or company) which has a good reputation for getting it right first try. In addition to the recommendation from Frog in Suit (who, it must be said, has some wonderful suits), others to consider might be Pooles or Chittleborough and Morgan. The latter come perhaps closer to the slightly sharper looking sensibilities of John Pearce than the others. Richard Anderson also has a very good reputation but is probably too far above your price point.
Anderson and Sheppard and their alumni, while undoubtedly capable of making beautiful suits, many examples of which can be seen on the net, have whether rightly or wrongly, something of a hit or miss reputation. Their drape style is also perhaps rather far from the Pearse look.
As I understand it you will only be ordering one suit and you want some reassurance that you aren't going to regret your choice of tailor.
Unfortunately as far as John Pearse is concerned you are probably in a better position to judge than anyone else here because you are the only one with experience of him.
Think how your interaction with him has been for your shirts. Did he seem very keen to make sure you got something really right for you, something that really fitted you and suited you well? Did he appear ready to start again from scratch if something wasn't right? If so I would say your chances are good you could go ahead. If you suspect any reluctance on his part, bear in mind that if it all goes pear shaped, it is much less painful for a tailor to bin a 150 GBP shirt than a 2500 GBP suit and draw your own conclusions.
Your alternatives I think would be to choose a tailor (or company) which has a good reputation for getting it right first try. In addition to the recommendation from Frog in Suit (who, it must be said, has some wonderful suits), others to consider might be Pooles or Chittleborough and Morgan. The latter come perhaps closer to the slightly sharper looking sensibilities of John Pearce than the others. Richard Anderson also has a very good reputation but is probably too far above your price point.
Anderson and Sheppard and their alumni, while undoubtedly capable of making beautiful suits, many examples of which can be seen on the net, have whether rightly or wrongly, something of a hit or miss reputation. Their drape style is also perhaps rather far from the Pearse look.
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Troedyrhiw
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Thank you Hesketh.
My personal dealings with John Pearse have been limited, due mainly to the considerable distance between my home and London. Certainly I was impressed with how he made up 'copies' of two different styles of Hermes casual shirt using only a photograph of the shirts from the Hermes house magazine as a reference. This obviously necessitated new patterns being made up and the look, fit and quality of the stitching etc was very impressive. I particularly like the cuffs which have just the right balance between structure and comfort.
I shall probably visit three London tailors in April. John Pearse will certainly be one but also Timothy Everest. I had a suit made by him some 15 years ago and it has worn very well. Also, I visited his web-site and 'blog recently and was impressed by the variety of styles illustrated there. I am unsure who the third tailor will be but it will certainly be one of those recommended earlier by TLL members.
I will report back on my experiences, particularly as John Pearse has not been covered in any detail on this Forum.
Regards,
Troedyrhiw
My personal dealings with John Pearse have been limited, due mainly to the considerable distance between my home and London. Certainly I was impressed with how he made up 'copies' of two different styles of Hermes casual shirt using only a photograph of the shirts from the Hermes house magazine as a reference. This obviously necessitated new patterns being made up and the look, fit and quality of the stitching etc was very impressive. I particularly like the cuffs which have just the right balance between structure and comfort.
I shall probably visit three London tailors in April. John Pearse will certainly be one but also Timothy Everest. I had a suit made by him some 15 years ago and it has worn very well. Also, I visited his web-site and 'blog recently and was impressed by the variety of styles illustrated there. I am unsure who the third tailor will be but it will certainly be one of those recommended earlier by TLL members.
I will report back on my experiences, particularly as John Pearse has not been covered in any detail on this Forum.
Regards,
Troedyrhiw
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Troedyrhiw
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Hello again,
Having just collected my first John Pearse suit, I thought I would report back to members on my experience. Photographs of the finished suit will follow once I have the time to attempt once again to master my wife's digital camera - I am useless with modern technology, I'm afraid.
Forgive me if this post is rather long but I thought that members might welcome an overall view of a tailor who seems to be relatively unknown within the forum.
John Pearse (JP) operates from a side street in London's Soho district. His small shop is manned by JP himself and a female assistant. The shop seems to reflect JP's own slightly eccentric personality and contains examples of both bespoke and RTW garments. The only item that i was suprised not to see was a changing room - I got changed in JP's office!
Most potential customers not living in London will probably gain their initial impression of JP through his web-site. I think this gives a slightly mistaken impression because it highlights perhaps the 'wackier' side of JP's range. This perhaps harks back to the 1960's when JP was one of the co-founders of the London boutique 'Granny Takes A Trip' which is well known to some of us of a certain age. Anyone who wants some more information on 'Granny's' and JP's tailoring background should take a look on-line at the BBC series 'British Style Genius' where JP makes a number of cameo appearances.
Anyway, back to my suit. I had written to JP before my consultation appointment so he was aware of my requirements. We met on a hot day in April and after I had been given a cold beer we had a very productive informal talk. Despite my advancing years I opted for a fairly contemporary style Two button jacket (not buttoned too low), 'soft' shoulders, 2 external flap pockets, 3 internal pockets, single vent, jacket waisted but not too much, slanted (what JP calls a 'boat' shape) breast pocket, two slanted working cuff buttons. Trousers/pants were to be flat fronted, belt loops, slightly slanted side pockets, one rear buttoned pocket, raised side seams, uncuffed 18". I had originally considered a flannel cloth but eventually chose a mid grey flecked cloth (now discontinued) from the Holland & Sherry 'Snowy River' range.
1st fitting was in late May and went very well. I was delighted with my choice of cloth and the style suited me well (pun not intended). Slight adjustments were made to shoulder width, sleeve width and length, jacket waist, lapel width, trouser width etc. JP gave considered advice but I did not feel that I was being forced to accept a particular style at all. Jacket body and sleeve lining were chosen as well as button size/colour.
2nd fitting was last week and again went very well. The fit of the suit was excellent (JP has encouraged me to wear it a little around the house before its first public showing on my daughter's wedding day) and I was very pleased with the choice of lining and buttons. The quality of workmanship appeared (to my relatively inexperienced eye) to be very good indeed - certainly much better to that of the provincial tailor that i used for my last suit and at least equal to Timothy Everest and other 'Off Row' tailors I have used previously. I took the suit home but when I wore it with the shoes I intend to wear for the wedding (1950's bespoke Peal slip-ons) the trouser break was too pronounced for my taste. I need to visit JP again to collect a shirt I have ordered and he informs me that the trousers can be altered in about 2 hours.
In summary I have been very pleased with my experience with JP and would encourage other members to consider him. Not cheap (£2,400 for my two piece suit) but excellent quality and just a little bit different from most other tailors.
Best regards,
Troedyrhiw
Having just collected my first John Pearse suit, I thought I would report back to members on my experience. Photographs of the finished suit will follow once I have the time to attempt once again to master my wife's digital camera - I am useless with modern technology, I'm afraid.
Forgive me if this post is rather long but I thought that members might welcome an overall view of a tailor who seems to be relatively unknown within the forum.
John Pearse (JP) operates from a side street in London's Soho district. His small shop is manned by JP himself and a female assistant. The shop seems to reflect JP's own slightly eccentric personality and contains examples of both bespoke and RTW garments. The only item that i was suprised not to see was a changing room - I got changed in JP's office!
Most potential customers not living in London will probably gain their initial impression of JP through his web-site. I think this gives a slightly mistaken impression because it highlights perhaps the 'wackier' side of JP's range. This perhaps harks back to the 1960's when JP was one of the co-founders of the London boutique 'Granny Takes A Trip' which is well known to some of us of a certain age. Anyone who wants some more information on 'Granny's' and JP's tailoring background should take a look on-line at the BBC series 'British Style Genius' where JP makes a number of cameo appearances.
Anyway, back to my suit. I had written to JP before my consultation appointment so he was aware of my requirements. We met on a hot day in April and after I had been given a cold beer we had a very productive informal talk. Despite my advancing years I opted for a fairly contemporary style Two button jacket (not buttoned too low), 'soft' shoulders, 2 external flap pockets, 3 internal pockets, single vent, jacket waisted but not too much, slanted (what JP calls a 'boat' shape) breast pocket, two slanted working cuff buttons. Trousers/pants were to be flat fronted, belt loops, slightly slanted side pockets, one rear buttoned pocket, raised side seams, uncuffed 18". I had originally considered a flannel cloth but eventually chose a mid grey flecked cloth (now discontinued) from the Holland & Sherry 'Snowy River' range.
1st fitting was in late May and went very well. I was delighted with my choice of cloth and the style suited me well (pun not intended). Slight adjustments were made to shoulder width, sleeve width and length, jacket waist, lapel width, trouser width etc. JP gave considered advice but I did not feel that I was being forced to accept a particular style at all. Jacket body and sleeve lining were chosen as well as button size/colour.
2nd fitting was last week and again went very well. The fit of the suit was excellent (JP has encouraged me to wear it a little around the house before its first public showing on my daughter's wedding day) and I was very pleased with the choice of lining and buttons. The quality of workmanship appeared (to my relatively inexperienced eye) to be very good indeed - certainly much better to that of the provincial tailor that i used for my last suit and at least equal to Timothy Everest and other 'Off Row' tailors I have used previously. I took the suit home but when I wore it with the shoes I intend to wear for the wedding (1950's bespoke Peal slip-ons) the trouser break was too pronounced for my taste. I need to visit JP again to collect a shirt I have ordered and he informs me that the trousers can be altered in about 2 hours.
In summary I have been very pleased with my experience with JP and would encourage other members to consider him. Not cheap (£2,400 for my two piece suit) but excellent quality and just a little bit different from most other tailors.
Best regards,
Troedyrhiw
Very interesting, thank you for sharingTroedyrhiw wrote: (...)
Forgive me if this post is rather long but I thought that members might welcome an overall view of a tailor who seems to be relatively unknown within the forum.
Did you visit Mr. Everest and a third tailor before making your decision and if so what was your impression? I might commission an odd jacket at Kerr's or Everest's, that is why I am a little curious. Oh, and how has the suit worn so far?
Just in case it swings your decision, Timothy Everest are offering 20% off bespoke orders placed in January. I still think that makes them around twice the price as Eddie Kerr though. Another one to add to your list is Thom Sweeney which comprises two ex-Everest tailors (note I have no personal experience of them).Frans wrote:Very interesting, thank you for sharingTroedyrhiw wrote: (...)
Forgive me if this post is rather long but I thought that members might welcome an overall view of a tailor who seems to be relatively unknown within the forum.
Did you visit Mr. Everest and a third tailor before making your decision and if so what was your impression? I might commission an odd jacket at Kerr's or Everest's, that is why I am a little curious. Oh, and how has the suit worn so far?
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Troedyrhiw
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Apologies for the delay in replying, SimonC.
I must confess that I did not visit any other tailors before ordering my John Pearse suit. I have aspired after a JP suit for a number of years and I have been very pleased with the shirts and ties he has made for me in the past. As I explained in my previous post I have been delighted with the suit. I have not worn it extensively since it was made but it was certainly very comfortable during my daughter's wedding day. The only issue I have is that both collar lapels are 'puckering' slightly. Not sure if this is a tailoring fault or more a product of the fairly light weight cloth chosen but I will bring it to JP's attention when I am next in London.
I cannot comment on Eddie Kerr, I'm afraid. As for Timothy Everest well I am typing this post whilst wearing a 16 year old Everest three piece tweed suit which has worn very well indeed and, amazingly, still fits me relatively well. I did not realise that bespoke tailors had 'January Sales' so thanks to Frans for that.
As a relatively impoverished Welshman with an expensive habit for vintage cars, I cannot really afford to use JP on a regular basis. Has anyone any experience of Fox Flannel's in-house tailor who, I understand, is ex-A&S? He is much more affordable and Somerset is more convenient for me than London.
Regards.
I must confess that I did not visit any other tailors before ordering my John Pearse suit. I have aspired after a JP suit for a number of years and I have been very pleased with the shirts and ties he has made for me in the past. As I explained in my previous post I have been delighted with the suit. I have not worn it extensively since it was made but it was certainly very comfortable during my daughter's wedding day. The only issue I have is that both collar lapels are 'puckering' slightly. Not sure if this is a tailoring fault or more a product of the fairly light weight cloth chosen but I will bring it to JP's attention when I am next in London.
I cannot comment on Eddie Kerr, I'm afraid. As for Timothy Everest well I am typing this post whilst wearing a 16 year old Everest three piece tweed suit which has worn very well indeed and, amazingly, still fits me relatively well. I did not realise that bespoke tailors had 'January Sales' so thanks to Frans for that.
As a relatively impoverished Welshman with an expensive habit for vintage cars, I cannot really afford to use JP on a regular basis. Has anyone any experience of Fox Flannel's in-house tailor who, I understand, is ex-A&S? He is much more affordable and Somerset is more convenient for me than London.
Regards.
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