Suggestions for London shirtmaker for casual shirts?

[Julian]

Hello everyone. Since this is my first post I'll provide some background before asking my question. Some of the background helps explain what I'm looking for from a shirtmaker.

I'm 5' 8" and of slim build (135 lbs). I've finally come to accept that it is getting increasingly more difficult to find any RTW jackets and shirts that fit me properly and, rather late in life (52), I have decided that bespoke is the solution to my problem. I am retired so I no longer wear suits on a regular basis - the main staples of my wardrobe are sports jackets, trousers, shirts and shoes.

I currently have my first jacket being made by Sims & MacDonald in Lamb's Conduit Street. Although I'm almost certain to try a Savile Row tailor at some point, I decided to start with Sims & MacDonald because (a) they seem to have a good reputation, (b) I don't want the very soft A&S style of tailoring and prefer a more structured cut which ruled out some alternatives, (c) It is very possible that I will make mistakes on my first few commissions so, while I am getting my eye in, it seems more sensible to risk being disappointed by an £800 jacket than by a £2.5K - £3K jacket, and (d) If I am to decide whether a Savile Row tailor is worth the premium (and my mind is perfectly open to deciding that it isn't) then it seems sensible to have a personalised baseline for comparison first.

I now find myself in a similar but not identical situation with shirts. I am aware of all the big-name Jermyn Street and Savile Row shirtmakers but, following the same logic as I outlined above, I would like to start my journey into the world of bespoke shirts with a less prestigious (and less expensive) maker. Essentially I am looking for the equivalent of a Sims & MacDonald in the shirtmaking world.

There is another factor influencing my search for a suitable shirtmaker which, possibly coloured by my own misconceptions, also steers me away from the more prestigious makers. I am not looking for dress shirts, I am looking for casual shirts to be worn to the pub, cinema, other low-key social events, or just out and about shopping or walking during the day. Most of my existing casual RTW shirts are in darker colours (a lot or earth tones) and in heavier materials (corduroy, flannel, textured cottons) and linen for the summer. My assumption is that Turnbull & Asser and the like would be a bit sniffy in dealing with such fabrics, and £350+ or more for shirts to wear to the pub seems a bit excessive.

At this point a few people reading this might be thinking to themselves "why not go made to measure?". That is an option that I've investigated and would still consider but the options (web sites) that I've looked at so far have been ruled out due to (a) not offering the range of colours or materials that I would want, (b) another of my bugbears is darker coloured shirts with white or cream coloured buttons on them and many of the made to measure web sites offer limited or no option to match button and fabric colours, and (c) I have come to understand the difference between true bespoke and MTM as far as jackets and trousers are concerned so I feel that I might as well do the job properly and go for true bespoke rather than MTM for my shirts as well. I just want clothes that fit.

A final option might be for me to buy RTW shirts purely for the fabric and then take them to a decent tailor to take apart and remake to my pattern. This option still leaves me needing to find a tailor who is adept at shirtmaking though so brings me back to my core question.

Ideally I'd like to find someone in the under £200 per shirt price range although that's not a firm limit. If I get a good feeling about a tailor then the typical 5 or 6 shirt minimum order wouldn't be a problem. Any suggestions?

- Julian

[SMCK]

I have just been thinking about this myself, but not yet done anything about it.
I like Robert Emmett, His casual shirts suit my style, in a slightly quirky selection of cloths.I do find them a bit bigger for me than I would like. They do offer a made to measure service, which I have as yet not used or priced, mainly as I live a bit far from them.I suspect that they may have what you are looking for. www.emmettlondon.com

[davidhuh]

Dear Julian,

welcome to the LL!

I have recently resolved a similar issue. I love wearing Liberty print shirts in my leisure time or to dress down in a suit. I found the solution with Budd at Piccadilly Arcade.

The first thing I decided to fix were my dress shirts. I thought this might be helpful before commissioning a suit from SR, and indeed it did help throughout the lounge suit fittings - my dress shirts and suits / coats commissioned since fit very well together. So I went to Budd, had a talk with Mr. Butcher and off we went, doing white dress shirts first in Alumo Soyella cotton. The minimum order at Budd is three shirts.

Once we had this done, we started doing some Liberty print shirts - slimmer fit, slimmer arms, a bit softer collars and cuffs (less interlining), just cloth and no interlining in the placket. It took us three or four shirts to get there, but I am very happy with the result (and get a lot of compliments for these shirts). In the end, this worked out so well that I am no longer wearing anything else but shirts cut by Mr. Butcher at Budd.

Price wise, it pays out nicely. I need 2m of cloth at 22 £ ca, and Budd charges 115 £ for the making - which is very, very decent in my eyes.

cheers, David

[andreyb]

Julian,

With bespoke shirts, it is both easier and harder to make a choice in London. Easier, because there are much less options. Harder is... for the same reason.

Most independent shirtmakers are within your budget: Budd (as David already mentioned -- though I believe their price is closer to 180GBP these days), Sean O'Flynn, Frank Foster, Stephen Lachter.

I'm a customer of SL. Like any other bespoke customers, I believe that I made the best choice. He charges ~180GBP per shirt; minimal order is four shirts. Choice of cloth is very, very broad -- I'm sure you will find some nice casuals. Also, Stephen has extensive knowledge of shirt styles, so he definitely can help you with cloth and style selection. He trades under "Kent, Haste & Lachter" name -- do a search and you'll find details.

Of course, other alternatives (at least Budd and S O'F) are worth considering, too.

Andrey

[davidhuh]

Dear Andrey,

the price quoted for Budd is recent - my last commission was picked up three weeks ago. This price does not include the cloth; for leisure shirts, I buy the fabric myself. When using their cloth, prices start at 190 £ ca.

cheers, david

[cathach]

Another option is

Grosvenor Shirts, they have a shop in London where you can pick cloth and be measured. Their website has a lot of casual designs.
http://www.grosvenorshirts.com/

Smyth and Gibson, although they don't have a physical shop in London, have a fitter that travels.
http://smythandgibson.com/contact/

Now, I haven't used either myself but they're based in the U.K. (Northern Ireland, to be exact) in a historical centre of shirt production and feedback here and elsewhere says positive things. Apparantly they do the out-work for many of the made-to-measure/bespoke shirt labels.

[WhippingBoy]

Excellent, I too am a commited Sims customer

Best value MTM shirts in London can be found at Stephan Shirts on Moore Park Road. Near Chelsea Football club
Current price is 79 quid. Reviews can be found at bespokeme.com. Erlend is a real gent and he knows what he is doing. So it wont be crap MTM. Minimum order is 1. I have 7 of their shirts

You might also want to try Ninos if you want a flash Italian style number

[soren]

for leisure shirts, I buy the fabric myself.

David, where do you buy your fabric? I find it really hard to buy decent shirting fabric (online that is, since I'm not based in the UK). Any advise will be much appreciated!

Cheers,
Soren

[yialabis]

Julian ,

I agree very much with what Andrey said . London is not the place for bespoke shirtmaking anymore, and it hasn't been for some time .If you travel at all, I would rather go somewhere in Italy where you have too much choices ,many price ranges and generally good craftsmanship... If I had to buy in London , I would probably go of the peg , many options there ..! Now if that is not an option at all for you ..then ..I would go to Emma Willis .She has the best casual range I've seen in London lately .Unfortunately I don't know how much she charges for a shirt now days , but they are reasonably well made, in England ..

Regards
Vassilis

[davidhuh]

for leisure shirts, I buy the fabric myself.

David, where do you buy your fabric? I find it really hard to buy decent shirting fabric (online that is, since I'm not based in the UK). Any advise will be much appreciated!

Cheers,
Soren

Dear Soren,

You can order Liberty prints online from Liberty: http://www.liberty.co.uk/fcp/categoryli ... lters=true. This range is updated every season.

A part from this, Will Boehlke has a very nice chambray in the ASW store. I just had a button down shirt made with it, turned out very nice. Also, I go to cloth shops where ever I am (and to shirt makers), just to buy cloth. Turnbull & Asser is an excellent resource, and they just love it when you walk over to Budd with their stuff

I agree that choice is more and more limited. Many cloth shops have closed down, or have a very limited selection.

cheers, david

[Gruto]

Very few London shirtmakers will have a genuine bespoke proces with a fitting. Most will start with finishing one shirt. They will make alteration to the shirt or make a new one, if this shirt is a miss. Some are more flexible than others in regards to this step. In Italy you will find several shirtmakers who do a proper fitting, before they finish the first shirt. But, would you rather visit an Italian shirtmaker, who has a true bespoke proces, but is not very talented, or a sublime London shirtmaker, who simplify the bespoke proces a bit This could be a real choice.

[Julian]

Wow. Thanks for all the replies. I've done some searching on the various results. I do want to stick with London as the location since this is where I live and I'm coming from such a modest starting point in terms of shirts that I wear at the moment that I don't feel the need to travel the world in search of the ultimate shirtmaking experience. From some of the prices quoted in this thread I've also had a reverse sticker shock experience, in that I'm surprised at how affordable some of the well respected bespoke shirtmakers are, so I see no reason to pursue MTM web sites and other remote options although I appreciate all the suggestions given here. It appears that I have a number of local options within my budget where I can go in and seek advice.

David - "... Once we had this done, we started doing <SNIP> a bit softer collars and cuffs (less interlining), just cloth and no interlining in the placket. It took us three or four shirts to get there, ...".

After I made my post I realised that I hadn't mentioned this; it is one area that seems to me to be an important difference between dress and casual shirts and worries me regarding getting the balance right on how much to soften the collar, cuffs and placket. I was also concerned that it might be an area where the big name shirtmakers might be out of their comfort zone so it's particularly interesting that you mentioned this aspect of the construction and the challenges encountered. It's encouraging that you have taken Budd through this process and it's one of the reasons why I'd like to stick with a shirtmaker where I can go in and talk this stuff through. At this point my tentative plan is to shortlist Budd, Stephen Lachter & Sean O'Flynn and to go in and have a chat with each to see whom I feel most comfortable with, they're all within a 25 minute tube ride from my home so it's very convenient for me.

- Julian

[Milo]

It has been mentioned in another thread that Bonfanti would begin selling their shirtings on-line.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7556&p=57161&hilit=bonfanti#p5716

Milo

[soren]

David, thank you so much, that was helpful indeed!

Yes I've seen the Bontanti-thread, and also read a bit about it on styleforum. Let's hope it will be online soon!

[alden]

Julian

Thanks for your well thought out post and question.

I have posted something on DWS you might want to keep in mind:

http://dresswithstyle.com/2011/09/28/th ... n-bespoke/

Good luck

Michael Alden