ACTUALLY why are white bow ties inappropriate for black tie

[alden]

Chasing away the thought that you have to do anything "special" with your formal dress so your "style" would show through will simply bring out your natural Style. Lift the barriers from within: you don't have to do anything special to have Style. Nothing at all. On the contrary! Just be yourself.

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"Chasing away the thought that you have to do anything "special" [...] so your "style" would show through will simply bring out your natural Style. Lift the barriers from within: you don't have to do anything special to have Style. Nothing at all. On the contrary! Just be yourself."



Michael Alden

[Gruto]

Lift the barriers from within: you don't have to do anything special to have Style. Nothing at all. On the contrary! Just be yourself. You think it's easy?...

Don't flee your barriers. Love your barriers, and you will have style ...

As for formal wear, make sure the clothes fit, that they are skillfully cut in good cloth, accept your part in the play gracefully and without ego (a black or white tie party is a shared experience) and enjoy the event and the company - with Style.

As for formal wear, I have little experience. I never get any further than a navy blue herringbone suit. I think many people are in the same situation today: formal wear occasions are very rare and far away from daily life.

[carl browne]

However, what Carl Brown suggests, that formal dress (white tie and tails) to differentiate gentleman from servants does not seem to be correct.

The source of my assertion was an early 1950s edition of Emily Post, who describes in great detail correct formal evening clothes for the master of the house as well as his butler and the other servants. The servants are expected to wear livery, the butler, on the other hand, wears a tailcoat and trousers sufficiently different to identify him as such.

It's all pretty anachronistic and amusing, should I try to reproduce it here?

C

[Robin Milford]

I'm going to invite a mauling here and suggest that a black four in hand tie looks better than a bow tie.

I think if one are fan of classic design then its the best choice to choose black one but everyone has their choices & fashion.

[Luca]

ON THE ORIGINAL QUESTION

Beyond the obvious ontological concept that black- or white-tie are definitionally black and white, respectively, consider the relative level of formality. Black tie (tux) was invented as a less formal, less 'stiff', more lounging style of dress and is associated entirely with evening wear. White tie (tails) derives from and is a specialized version of gentlemanly attire in the second half of the 19th century and is not entirely divorced, therefore, from morning dress.

Thus, white tie is more formal and harks back to a more distant past and therefore it makes sense to associate with it a more delicate, less practical, more exquisite colour like white / off-white. There is also an indirect association with day wear (although, I know, it is only worn at night)

Black tie is more informal, almost sporty and therefore a more 'rugged', practical color like black makes sense.

ON THE QUESTION OF STYLE VS. UNIFORMITY

The idea is to show your sense of style not through the rather obvious and quite possibly gauche use of gaudy or non-standard colors but rather through more subtle aspects of cut, drape, fabric, etc. Let's say you are wearing black tie; most men nowadays wear lace-ups with it. Why not go for the patent slippers? That will certainly distinguish you in most company AND it is "correct". Just having a different lapel cut from what is currently fashionable (a few years ago, shawl collars on tuxes went from virtually zero to 100% in a few years) should suffice. Same with the shirt's fabric.

[YoungLawyer]

It's an interesting point here, in saying that there is a certain level of formality that people won't surpass. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm neither trying to make a historical re-enactment point, nor raise class issues. Things like the top hat, coats cut with seams, white tie, black tie, and even the neck-tie itself, evolved because people thought they looked good. Our age seems to think that looking comfortable is more important than that. Surely, if something objectively looks good, we should feel more free to wear it. Evening-wear evolved because it looks flattering at night or in dim lighting. I'd much rather we continued to wear evening-dress regularly, and allowed a white tie with a short coat, than continue in the present situation, where we feel that we have to wait to be told to dress up to feel entitled to do so. What's happened to our collective sense of occasion? A dinner suit is just a suit after all. Why shouldn't we wear it when we like, rather than waiting for permission? It's very easy to say that 100 years ago, people took more care about their appearence; however, as a sizable body of people alive today, what's stopping us raising the fashion stakes and not feeling inhibited. Living in London, where dinner suits get an almost weekly outing, it's easy to forget how rare that actually is. If wearing a white tie with a black coat makes someone feel enabled to dress for an occasion, why not, I say. I'd rather the mentality of preparing for an evening, and caring about one's dress, survived, than a rigid code were adhered to, and it died out entirely.

[All over the world]

Because Black Tie is called Black Tie for a reason.

[storeynicholas]

Well, actually, the first 'dress lounge' suits that were worn out of the house (from the 1880s), were generally worn with a white tie and vest. There are plenty of illustrations of this. By around 1920, a black tie became the norm with a dinner jacket-Tuxedo and white tie remained the norm with a dress coat. The term 'black tie' evolved after this as a shorthand way of indicating the level of formality of an evening invitation, in accordance with post WWI customs. This does not mean that a white tie is 'wrong' with a DJ-Tux but to wear a white tie with it in this year of Grace 2011 is a denial (possibly a humorous denial) of modern social expectations (at least among civilized people; the uncivilized will be posing daringly around in their navy suits and brown shoes).