Bespoke Overcoat

[Lance]

ay329 - Is this "As to a warm cloth...Michael Alden mentioned he is commissioning a 35 oz (1000 gram) durable cashmere in a Dark Navy" one of Michael's Cloth Club projects? I certainly hope so. I presently own a navy pea coat in a 90/10 wool/cashmere blend and it is far more comfortable than the all wool versions. But 100% cashmere which is also durable would be impossible to top and perfect, in my opinion, for a new pea coat (although I'm certain Michael has grandeur plans for the cloth). I've corresponded with A&S and they will make it. I wonder if one of the more military leaning houses would be a better choice? At any rate, I'm in for sure if it's a Cloth Club project.

Lance

[alden]

Could this be an an appropriate alternative to the above Cavalry Twill for a Navy Pea Coat?

AY329, I think the HE Box 9002 is perfect for a peacoat. Cashmere would be too fine for such an application.

The 1 kilo cashmere, code name Everest, is an exceptional cloth. The test was a great success and a few coats are being made from the cloth as we speak. Stay tuned.

Cheers

Michael

[alden]

I should think three or four coats would be enough for any man's wardrobe:

Enough for what?

Enough, definition, "sufficient to meet a need or satisfy a desire; adequate."

I suppose many of the men who have their clothes made can do so because they don't have the word "enough" in their vocabularies. They are insatiable. They know there are no finish lines, no checkered flags, no tapes to burst through. There are only destinations, desires that cannot be satisfied because they are constantly changing, assuming attractive and beguiling forms, new pleasures beckoning on an expanding horizon. With the quenching of every fire comes the forging of a deeper one, the relevance of the first desire lost in the birth of the new.

Have fun with your dress and leave "enough" off your list of objectives.

Cheers

Michael Alden

[Lance]

Michael,

"Cashmere would be too fine for such an application". By this, do you mean that the Everest cloth would not be substantial enough or that it is too refined for a casual coat?

Thanks,

Lance

[Costi]

Bond, I think a fur lined coat is your best option. This way you needn't rely entirely on the cloth to provide warmth and may choose from a wider array of weights and designs.

[alden]

"Cashmere would be too fine for such an application". By this, do you mean that the Everest cloth would not be substantial enough or that it is too refined for a casual coat?

I think cashmere is too refined for a peacoat. I would want something a bit more rough and tumble. The 32 ozs cavalry twill seems perfect.

Cheers

Michael

[bond_and_beyond]

Could anyone recommend a dark blue (midnight blue) cloth that would be suitable for a TRUE wintercoat? What else could one do to make such a coat sufficiently warm.

HE Box has a 32 ozs cavalry twill in a navy blue (9002), but it is not a midnight blue. Most of the overcoat material available through the distributors stop at 24 ozs. these days and it is a bit of a shame.

Cheers

M Alden

This sounds very interesting. Would one want extra lining with that?

As regards the suggestion of a fur lining I find that to be an exciting idea! Would one need a "specialty" tailor for that? Or would most tailors be comfortable working with fur?

Many thanks to all for your responses thus far!

[~ Monsieur Xu ~]

Could anyone recommend a dark blue (midnight blue) cloth that would be suitable for a TRUE wintercoat? What else could one do to make such a coat sufficiently warm.

HE Box has a 32 ozs cavalry twill in a navy blue (9002), but it is not a midnight blue. Most of the overcoat material available through the distributors stop at 24 ozs. these days and it is a bit of a shame.

Cheers

M Alden

This sounds very interesting. Would one want extra lining with that?

As regards the suggestion of a fur lining I find that to be an exciting idea! Would one need a "specialty" tailor for that? Or would most tailors be comfortable working with fur?

Many thanks to all for your responses thus far!

My tailor, though based in the Tropics, seems to have no problems working with fur. I'm presently having two coats made up, each with detachable mink collars.

On the subject of bespoke overcoats, I drew inspiration for my own coat from Mr Hitchcock's, a splendid navy double breast 6x2, with the characteristic A&S wide lapels and long buttonholes. It is one of the best examples of such that I have seen anywhere.

A tad unorthodox perhaps, but I wonder why a heavy shandong silk overcoat has never been considered. In my experience heavy silk wears warm enough to be worn in snowy London weather (such as it is now) with no shirt below. It is certainly as elegant if not more than cashmere, sort of a sobre, citified dressing gown.

[Cravate Noire]

My first bespoke overcoat order is kind of epic as the number of fittings is concerned, just had the 5th oe 6th, dont remember it exatcly, first one was a muslin fitting.
He even made some light shoulders pads (wads) just to try (we skipped them for a very thin layer of Horsehair) and an a muslin sleeve...
I want those crazy "side vents" that are executed as semi box-pleats (?) and as I got it, they are somehwat complicated to do for the first time.

[John H. Watson, M.D]

On the topic of bespoke overcoat, I am currently planning on two bespoke overcoat projects, both Chesterfields, one Navy DB and another Camel SB.

If I were to go for the "Ultimate" coat and decide to use pure cashmere or vicuña would anyone advise against it? What would the durability be like? I understand that there are a number of fine English cloth houses that provide quality cashmere. But Loro Piana's baby cashmere seems like a fine option.

Any thoughts?

Watson

[Simon A]

The Kazakhs of Central Asia, in their own manner, are probably the world's greatest authorities on the merits of different textiles in very cold weather. For over a millenium they have wandered the steppes of Turkestan, living in felt tents and weaving garments of great practicality and beauty to keep them comfortable and (at times) elegant in some of the world's most gruelling conditions (down to -45 degrees Centigrade in winter).

Cashmere has been viewed as a nobleman's fabric by the Kazakhs for a very long time, partly because of its excellent insulating value for a relatively light weight, its very soft and delicate hand, but also because it wears out very fast (and hence only noblemen could afford to wear it). Modern goat production techniques, and the most advanced modern spinning and weaving technology, mean that a handfull of mills today can now produce the kind of cashmere garment you can hand on to your children. They may not necessarily be big name mills. Michael's source may be the only mill left who can do this consistently, and so his Everest cashmere may well end up as a highly valued heirloom product.

Camel hair was viewed by Kazakhs as a good honest working herdsman's fibre, with superior insulating value, and tremendous durability. It is now somewhat rare, but I have some children's garments made of this fibre that are over 100 years old, and will probably last another 100 years of rough and tumble if stored properly.

Well spun-and-woven pure wool coating of superior quality (not necessarily of very fine fibre diamater) will have a good hand and drape, will last 50-100 years if cared for, and will survive the occasional jamming in the overhead locker doors of an aircraft or taxi doors without ill effect.

People will have different ideas, but I think a man's overcoat should be able to take day-to-day punishment without the wearer obsessing about such wear and tear. Top quality wool (or Everest cashmere?), or camel hair of a good heavy weight will tend to outperform the very soft lightweight cashmere or vicuna coatings in this regard.

[John H. Watson, M.D]

Thank you Simon.

That was very detailed. I have definitely learned a lot. As I am new to this forum, will someone educate me on different grades/weight of cashmere or names of mill houses that provide quality cashmere?

Perhaps Mr. Alden could tell me more about Everest Cashmere? So does it mean, the finer and lighter the cashmere, the less likely it could last a very long time as oppose to heavy weight cashmere? Heavy weight cashmere might be even too warm for English or European weather.

Thanks,

Watson

[Slewfoot]

Hi Guys - does anyone have a photograph of the H.E. Box 32oz cavalry twill? Trying to get a feel for the exact shade of blue. I believe it's #9002. Thanks in advance!

[bond_and_beyond]

Hi Guys - does anyone have a photograph of the H.E. Box 32oz cavalry twill? Trying to get a feel for the exact shade of blue. I believe it's #9002. Thanks in advance!

I do. I had a double breasted overcoat made from it last year (the ultimate wintercoat, with an extra layer for warmth).

Struggling to upload currently, but will try tonight.
BB

[bond_and_beyond]

As promised, some photos of the HE Box (not sure why the lapels look shiny, might be the flash):







BB