The Myth of the Soft Shoulder

[Greger]

This coat looks like a total miss. Perhaps he put it on wrong, or something. As far as the facing goes, is there any harmony in this coat, so they look bad? It isn't a right or wrong, but in harmony with every other part of the coat and sometimes vest and trousers that counts. As far as stripes running parallel with the edge, that is for utilizing the strength from the wrap threads to prevent the edge getting stretched, which one or two layers of stay tape will handel fine. So, there really is no rule to how the stripes run. And I have seen some running horizontal. It would be interesting to see a coat with the stripes running the other way, except that it might make the guy look fatter, but it might point out a narrow waist on a woman, either way the stripes would point to the head and waist. The coat below the stripes point right to an ugly shoulder and sleeve cap. In graphic arts I learned to use lines to my advantage and not to my disadvantage. Every detail counts.

[MTM]

...
Now I have looked into our LL photo archives to hopefully find a photo of a soft, round silhouette, in the manner made today, which I would consider empowering and elegant but, alas, without success. Perhaps you can help with that....

Iammatt's soft shouldered jackets look excellent on the internet and irl.
A few of the coats you posted looked soft and good to me.

[A.Hacking]

Sadly, as I am at work I have had to scroll through those photos rather quickly. There were certainly some elegant forms to admire but doing so here and now would get be sacked!

[Costi]

Of ALL the pictures posted by Uppercase, subsequent posters only focused on one: a Rubinacci coat; to the detriment of ANYTHING else! This is truly a DRESSERS' club...
And it shows that being draped in MYTH is more fascinating than crude reality!

[couch]

Well, in fairness, A. Hacking did remark on the one coatless picture . . . .

[NES]

Nastassja Kinski...
And Marcello Mastroianni.

[A.Hacking]

Good to see that the Emperor's old tailors are back in business. Sadly the tale never mentioned whether they were drape or structured!
That's a hell of a way of taking measurements though!

[alden]

UC,

There are many good points here. The truth of it is that there are poor examples of tailoring and great examples. Like you say, the exaggerations on both sides of the style aisle need to be tossed out. I believe that the clothes that remain, their ability to move or influence us, depend on the man who wears them.

This may be a self effacing, tentative, uncertain, wishing to melt in the background with a surfeit of modesty, apologetic thing to say coming from a shrinking violet, boy named Sue but you infer powers for clothes that I have never seen. Whenever I have had the good fortune to meet an extraordinary or elegant man, I have been instantly drawn to the man and hardly noticed his clothes. I have never seen the clothes first and then discovered an extraordinary man.

However, once the curiosity is sated, it should be equally expected that a bespeaker be forthright and clear eyed when he faces his reflection in the mirror. And then be honest.

No, what is needed is a hard headed assessment of what looks good on each of us. As much as we may want to wear a particular silhouette, we just may not be able to. Face it manfully.

This is good advice but I am not sure there is a hard headed, objective or manly standard to measure how one looks. Is it possible to look good to everyone, and would this be what looks good on us? I don’t think so. Isn’t it, on the other hand, entirely possible and beneficial to overall style to simply feel good about how you look? And that is true in a formal, business or casual situation. I do not believe that a change in the cut of one’s shoulder or clothes from one occasion to the next has an ounce of effect. I tend to think it is more important that a man feels and believes he is the cat’s meow whatever the attire he chooses. Confidence and courage that works from within is the real stuff. It’s not something you can try on or have made by a tailor.

Remember, in Napoli, the ancestral home of the soft shoulder, the elegant Neapolitan prefers a squared shoulder for his formal suits and this is what you will see in Naples. The rounded, soft shoulder is saved for daytime Summer wear and sports jackets.

Yes, some Neapolitan tailors do encourage men to wear different shoulder styles for different occasions. (This is not something you would ever hear in London, Paris, Rome, Florence, Milan or New York.) But most often they are referring to the difference between a very informal spalla camicia (shoulder cut like a shirt) and a normal jacket shoulder. In the species of normal jacket shoulders there are two primary varieties: the spalla scesa without rollino “rope” and a roped shoulder. To confuse matters a little, you have to remember that the great Neapolitan tailors make a roped shoulder that is natural ie with almost no padding or with a hand made pad that is very prepubescent (ie soft.) We use the same technique in Sicily. There is no horsehair in the shoulder, no industrially made mega pads.

The elegant Neapolitans that I know wear the same cut for all of their activities, the one they believe suits them best. And the top tailors in the city like Rubinacci and Formosa make pretty much one style. If you sincerely believe that you need two styles for different situations, I would not question it at all because it is a belief fundamental to your own style. But it is not something that need be codified and applied generally. I do not feel elegance can be codified with one set of data spitting out perfect masculine style. If it were only that simple.

Who should wear it?

1.

2. Athletic men, with high set, square shoulders where no pad can feasibly be used without the dreaded NFL linebacker look should wear it.

3. And, most importantly, men who “believe” they look great in it should wear a natural shoulder. Just like men who believe that look great in a square one, should wear it.

Who should not wear a natural shoulder?

Men with sloped shoulders should not. Though I hesitate to affirm this is entirely true given that the current Prince of Wales, who has atrociously sloped shoulders, wears a natural shoulder and was voted the Best Dressed Man on the planet. Maybe looking great does not depend on the choice of the shoulder cut or even clothes.

Cheers

Michael Alden

[old henry]

This coat looks like a total miss. Perhaps he put it on wrong, or something. As far as the facing goes, is there any harmony in this coat, so they look bad? It isn't a right or wrong, but in harmony with every other part of the coat and sometimes vest and trousers that counts. As far as stripes running parallel with the edge, that is for utilizing the strength from the wrap threads to prevent the edge getting stretched, which one or two layers of stay tape will handel fine. So, there really is no rule to how the stripes run. And I have seen some running horizontal. It would be interesting to see a coat with the stripes running the other way, except that it might make the guy look fatter, but it might point out a narrow waist on a woman, either way the stripes would point to the head and waist. The coat below the stripes point right to an ugly shoulder and sleeve cap. In graphic arts I learned to use lines to my advantage and not to my disadvantage. Every detail counts.

I think the older gentleman above looks elegant and interesting.

[rodes]

Old Henry,Thanks for the compliment.This photo of me was taken a few years ago.I was 38 at the time.

[manton]

1. [url=http://img169.imageshack.us/i/86765086.jpg/]

This is fabulous and to me just kills the argument that sloped shoulders should be padded.

[ay329]

Perhaps a more objective evaluation of Alden would have a side by side comparison of a structured shoulder...and a soft shoulder.

Even with Alden's shirt jackets, the words slopped shoulders never came to mind...so I don't see how the soft shoulder, on Alden, hides anything.

[Greger]

I think the older gentleman above looks elegant and interesting.[/quote]

The coat is not setting on his shoulders right, as that one shows the seam part way and then twist back. He also has that arm back. It would be interesting to see him just standing and not holding something in one hand and with his other hand back a bit. A picture doesn't always tell the truth about quality.

His choice of cloth is excellent.

[Greger]

...I have been instantly drawn to the man and hardly noticed his clothes. I have never seen the clothes first and then discovered an extraordinary man.

I have seen where the clothes instantly separate a man from his peers, but not not overpower the man wearing them. This is the way I think clothes should be unless you want to be incognito. I do like clean, crisp, snappy clothes. There are times for not so, though. If you go to a bank for a $10,000,000 loan and the banker is wearing cheap gym sweats you would most likely walk out. If you saw the banker at the gym wearing cheap gym sweats and started talking about a loan that would be entirely different. At a white tie party would you appreciate somebody crashing the party with a perfect business suit lounge? Clothes do make a difference. The hippie generation blasted out the strick rules of the past, but the younger generations want some separation between this and that. The hippie casualness is coming to an end. People do dress to accommodate other people's prejudices, and if they don't they don't get the job or the loan and so on. If I show up at the bank for a loan in grunge the banker may very well laugh me right out the door. If a banker in a perfect suit shows up to a mountaineering expedition with out proper clothes, he'll be left behind. Clothes for this and clothes for that. A sloppy looking suit for one business is just right, but wrong for another type of business. If the banker is not wearing the correct suit how many people walk out with out telling why, thinking he doesn't have all of his marbles together?

[Costi]

If it is the CLOTHES that set a man apart from his peers, something is wrong about the way he dresses.
On the other hand, there are men that can never go incognito, no matter how they dress.
We should dress appropriately for the environment and occasion out of mere common sense and consideration for others, not to conform to their prejudices, or to deliberately challenge them. An extraordinary man who is a banker (there must be some ) will dress appropriately out of respect for himself and for his work, as well as out of consideration for his customers (which is not the same as conforming to their preconceived cliches of what a banker should look or act like); there is no "banker", there are many bankerS, each different and similar, and not all banks do business the same way - see the way ING proposes itself for a change.
I think Michael's words are true and go deeper than you choose to look. And your favourite microscope is no use at that level, what you need is a potent telescope; possibly a Gamma-ray one!