The Myth of the Soft Shoulder

[Simon A]

I am not sure about that, if wearing quarterback-style shoulder pads I would be afraid of knocking the porcelain off the hall stand every time I walk inside.

Is this really the look one should aspire to?

Certainly matching shoulder construction to body type is a very sound idea, but also congruence with tradition for certain garment types has a role to play too.

[MTM]

We shouldn't take the shoulder out of the context of the greater picture- there is nothing particularly wrong with that shoulder on its own, but I don't think it does this particular wearer any favors because of his build and/or posture. No, let me take that back, now that I look at it again. It looks like it is sitting on his shoulder points, rather than being pitched forward and it is a miserably small sleeve at the cap. Two of the great sicknesses of RTW (before anyone who doesn't know me accuses me of being an elitist snob, know that I work in the RTW business) . Working that shoulder forward and a more generous sleeve cap would make a huge difference in the appearance and comfort of that suit. As it is, I wouldn't like it on anybody.

Your jacket, on the other hand, if paired with an odd trouser, would look fine, IMO. I don't love it as a suit. (Am I being crotchety this morning?)...

Not at all. Thanks for your thoughts. I do wear it with odd pants for the most part.

[Greger]

I am not sure about that, if wearing quarterback-style shoulder pads I would be afraid of knocking the porcelain off the hall stand every time I walk inside.

Is this really the look one should aspire to?

Certainly matching shoulder construction to body type is a very sound idea, but also congruence with tradition for certain garment types has a role to play too.

If made by a good tailor it certainly won't look that way, nor move that way.

I'm always amazed at how some people think. They see one tailor do a lousy job and then they think that all tailors who do that style do a lousy job. The skill level among tailors varies a great deal with every method.

[Greger]

Watching TV the other night and somebody was sitting behind a desk with a sloppy looking drape coat and it didn't give a good impression. If I went to a bank and saw that I would probably walk out and go to a different bank to find more responsible people behind the desks. Appearances do make a difference and shabby is not a good idea someplaces or times. Other times they are perfect.

[Simon A]

If you watch Fawlty Towers, you can see the costume department have deliberately chosen a coat far too broad across the shoulders, ill-fitting and excessively boxy for the Major. As the very elderly character has senile dementia, it fits that he lives in the past and wears clothes made for the much more robust physique of his youth. He isn't aware that his diminutive frame is swimming around in a giant navy cocoon.

[Costi]

Watching TV the other night and somebody was sitting behind a desk with a sloppy looking drape coat and it didn't give a good impression. If I went to a bank and saw that I would probably walk out and go to a different bank to find more responsible people behind the desks.

May I reply using your own words, Gregger?

I'm always amazed at how some people think. They see one tailor do a lousy job and then they think that all tailors who do that style do a lousy job.

And about being "responsible" - do you think a soft shoulder is a mark of someone irresponsible? I pray to God that I never have to dress to accommodate other people's prejudices...

For a side-by-side comparison, here is the same character dressed in a coat with a nicely done structured chest and shoulder (also roped)

and then in a soft shoulder and chest coat.

[Greger]

Wow! You massacre me with my own words!

That window paine coat where is the drape? As a small boy I had been looking at coats and decided I liked one that had drape just in front and behind the scye. Mom said something like, "Oh no. It is to close to the scye." Better drape is out towards the chest area more, so she said. Next to the scye it is to easy, or less skill to make.

[Costi]

Wow! You massacre me with my own words!

Massacre? I am not sure your own words are sharp enough for a butcher's job

That window paine coat where is the drape? As a small boy I had been looking at coats and decided I liked one that had drape just in front and behind the scye. Mom said something like, "Oh no. It is to close to the scye." Better drape is out towards the chest area more, so she said. Next to the scye it is to easy, or less skill to make.

Hardly any drape on the first coat, it is a structured coat that, according to a friend who once put it on a hanger for me, sits on a hanger like an Empress on her throne. It is clean, lean and very nicely made in that style.
Comparing the two, I am tempted to say the former is a nice example of upholstery - all the stuffing, the taut cloth over the canvas and the clearly defined shoulders, like the arms of a couch - while the latter is a piece of dress in which the skill is not on show. To my subjectivity, one is a loud virtuoso piece, the other is sweet music.

[Costi]

The assessment of the structured vs soft shoulder in the abstract does not make any more sense than that of a perfume by the description written on the box. Seeing a picture of a person wearing a garment is like opening the bottle and taking a sniff - it's still no more than a promise that might prove disappointing in real life. What really makes a difference is the man in flesh and blood walking and talking in front of your eyes, because I agree with Mr. Boyer that it is rather a psychological choice than a tailoring one based on technical and aesthetical grounds. And that is the right way, because if the choices are made in terms of STYLING (http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... =45&t=9808), then the person in real life will remain a pale projection of what he WOULD LIKE to be. I sometimes run into a lawyer who has his suits made by a tailor I know and whose coats are stuffed with 5-6 cm pads in his perfectly square shoulders; if you see his assertive attitude, the way he moves and gestures like a general, you understand he would probably feel naked in a soft coat. I also know a writer whose genteel manner of speaking, walking and gesturing in his soft coats would probably make him look like a punished child if he swapped coats with the lawyer; even if you didn't know them and they wore the same size, you would immediately suspect none of them is wearing HIS OWN clothes.
What is to be assessed, in my view, is the relation of the man to his dress choices - a matter of sartorial ethics rather than aesthetics: the beauty of truth, rather than
beauty for its own sake.

[manton]

I just cannot stand the big shoulder--not on me and rarely on anyone else. Sometimes I think it looks OK but 99% of those times I think the wearer would be better off with soft.

[old henry]

You can have a strong shoulder using very little pad -just 3/8 inch in the blade and only 1/8 inch [if any] in the shoulder. This is what I mean by a straight shoulder The tailor must reinforce the shoulder with a few extra layers of hair cloth in the canvas. It is a very clean , sharp look and allows for a trimmer sleeve. The only padded-up shoulder I liked was "Old Henry" Stewarts. His shoulders were well padded but not extended. His cutting system pulled everything into proportion........ See Paul Newman in" The Color of Money".. See Robert DeNiro in "Goodfellas". See Harrison Ford in "Regarding Henry". Henry Stewarts suits never ever ever moved from the neck. His armholes were very high. His system would not have worked otherwise. Trim , elegant. FS

[Greger]

There are certainly different "rules" to guide tailors in making.

I like seeing the different styles come and go and come back another way another day. Life would be boring if they didn't.

[uppercase]

Today my fortune cookie advised "Whisper in the dark", so I will continue.

Friends, I know that various shoulder treatments have strong partisans and evoke great emotion. .

A man can easily become wedded to a shoulder, a tailor, a style. These can, and do, become part of his identity and persona. To challenge them can be misconstrued as an affront.

Indeed, bespoke is individualistic and creative and taste is subjective. What is important is you, how you feel and what you enjoy.

But this doesn't mean that you look good, when you don't.

Let's talk turkey.

Now I own both round and square shoulder suits, softer and harder structures. I am neither a partisan nor advocate. But I do want to look good and everytime I walk into a tailor's shop, I make a choice and vote. I can walk into A&S or Huntsman. And all of the tailoring houses in between. And remember: a tailoring house is all about its coat: the shoulders and the structure: this is a tailoring house's brand. So choose.

Put aside for a moment all the myriad motivations which had you initially walk into a tailoring house: the heritage, the curiosity, the cultural references, the resonance, the relationship, the reputation, whatever. What makes you go back?

For me, it has to be just one consideration: who's silhouette works best for me, who's going to help me look good? That's pretty much the only criterion I need to consider when deciding whether to return to a tailoring house.

The soft shoulder houses fail me. No matter how much I love the idea of them.

Allow me to be forthright about soft. At least with myself:

My one sports coat from A&S is a curiosity. I enjoy it. I wear it often. But it doesn't look very good on me. Sort of makes me look pear shaped. Now, this particular coat is a SB tweed sports coat so I am not particularly purturbed because a tweed sports coat should look rough and ready and not overly fussy. But if this same coat were the top to a suit, well, the soft, drooping A&S shoulders would be a bit of a joke. Truth.

Now I have another soft coat, this a dark grey suit coat from Rubinacci. I saw a photo of myself the other day wearing this Rubinacci suit to a fairly dress up event. That was sobering. Who was that guy in the egg shaped suit with disappearing, attenuated shoulders? Not very elegant. At all.

No, the round shoulder, lack of canvas, slopping, drooping shoulder line, the soft shoulder, do me no favours. I need some structure, padding, a raised and extended shoulder, a masculine, distinguished silhouette. I think most men do.

A structured, square shoulder gives a man an advantage from the get go: a "V" silhouette, rather than an inverted V: "^". The square shoulder is masculine, elegant and forceful, though today, it seems to be an anachronism, only found in another era, rarely seen. Today, men are choosing a softer, rounder silhouette, perhaps in keeping with the cuddly , sensitive, warm and fuzzy times we live in.

But this squared shoulder treatment is what stylish men have long worn. It is a man's finest choice. There are some pictures below to illustrate this.

Moreover, even earlier eras' softer coats and shoulders, such as what we can see documented by Scholte's coats for Windsor, do not remotely resemble what is being produced today; before, there is structure, there is shape, it is not an 'easy measurement' as what we see coming out of the soft houses today.

It is not a question of fit; any silhouette can be made to fit. It's not a question of the richness of the cloth, nor how artfully the ensemble is arranged. Rather, the silhouette, particularly the shoulder, must first and foremost enhance us, not diminish us. Otherwise it cannot be called elegant but rather poor, enfeebled.

Nothing can succeed if the bones are not right. The make up can be applied later but if the shoulders, and silhouette, are not right for you, no matter how hard you try to twist your mind around the idea of a soft shoulder, all is for naught. Masculine elegance calls for a structured shoulder. Look to the past for inspiration.

Now I have looked into our LL photo archives to hopefully find a photo of a soft, round silhouette, in the manner made today, which I would consider empowering and elegant but, alas, without success. Perhaps you can help with that....

Otherwise, I will leave you with several photos to consider and further our discussions on this interesting topic.

The first photo, with thanks to thesartorialist.com, is of an artfully dressed gentleman wearing a soft shoulder by Rubinacci.

The others are of more structured shoulders from days past. As well as a few other photos I enjoyed.

[jefferyd]

Never mind the shoulder, the facings on that Rubinacci suit make me want to cry. And not in a good way.

[dopey]

Never mind the shoulder, the facings on that Rubinacci suit make me want to cry. And not in a good way.

Could there be an explanation for why it was cut that way? I am trying to imagine whether it would look right if rolled to the bottom rather than middle button.
It certainly looks very odd as is.