New tailcoat

[DFR]

I had a baste fitting for the tails last week, and I'm glad that I stuck to the 18/19oz fabric, which looks superb.


I'll ask to take a picture or two at the first proper fitting to illustrate the progress, if anyone is still following this thread.

Certainly am following this one: A very rare treat to be able to follow the story of a tailed evening dress in this day and age.

[Digby Snaffles]

I am with DFR here. Though I can't imagine I shall commission a full dress suit any time soon it is something I would very much like to own one day and words can only tell us so much.

[YoungLawyer]

"I am not sure what you mean by the waistcoat points covering the trouser waistband; surely the waistband should be well and truly covered."

Perhaps: 'Should the waistcoat buttons fasten (1) over the top of trousers [so, thinking horizontally, there are three types of layers of fabric; shirt, trouser waistband, waistcoat], or (2) above the trousers [fastning over just the shirt] so that the waistband (the inch or so of fabric at the top of the trousers above where the pleat begins, and to which are attached the brace-buttons) is covered by just the fabric of the waistcoat which hangs down beneath the waistcoat buttons?

On my old set, the trousers are extremely high-waisted, and so I have situation (1). However, they were cut for someone much fatter than I was, and in a loose 1930s style.

[YoungLawyer]

I've a question for Sator;

Should the placement of the waist seam be higher on a coat with a strap, than it is on a coat cut without a strap? Or, to put it another way, should a coat cut with a strap be longer in the front, than one without? If so, how much longer is, in your opinion, tasteful?

[YoungLawyer]

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss18 ... ilsnew.jpg
http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss18 ... lsnew2.jpg (not a natural stance!)

Subject to some alteration. There is a strap which runs through where the lowest button can be seen. I'll post more pictures soon.

One problem is that the sleevehead is a more oval shape than I had anticipated. I did ask for very small armholes at the start, but the tailor did adjust the sleeves to make them slightly wider at the second fitting, as they were too close to my forearm. The actual coat does now seem to move quite a bit when I move my arms, which I hadn't noticed (but perhaps I didn't move around enough) at earlier fittings. I think I'm going going to ask to slightly reduce the diamater of the arms, as well as having the sides taken slightly. I'd like it to fit a little closer around the collar too. My natural waist falls between the top and middle waistcoat button. It's difficult to see my natural waist, which is why I think it should fit slightly closer.

Any comments, esp. on the height of waist seam/ general cut/ comments on how easy it is to have armholes made smaller?

[Charlie Huang]

I don't know if it's just the angle from where the photo is taken but I think the lapel points are a little too high making them go beyond the shoulder line and interupting it.

[Digby Snaffles]

I would have to agree with Charles.

Do you think you'd be able to attach a picture showing the trousers as well, given that you had talked of a preference for a somewhat slimmer cut?

[ay329]

Question for the OP as I am in the market for a White Tie suit. Who made your 18oz Black Barathera cloth?

More pictures of your vest and jacket would be welcome.

[DFR]

This must surely be finished by now? Put us out of our misery and post a set of photographs. Given its rarity, the more the merrier including it being worn (with and without the coat to see the fit of the trousers) as well as not - things like the interior of the coat showing detail - pockets such as the tail and 'ordinary' ones.

[Charlie Huang]

I habitually only carry one bank card and an oyster card, a key on a ribbon, and perhaps a few notes, all of which fit neatly into the fob pocket. A functional hankerchief occupies one side pocket, and perhaps an invitation and/or dance card sit in the inside breast pocket on the coat. Anything else, such as a telephone, other keys, loose change and other cards stay in my coat. So I don't think I've call for many more pockets than I would have done eighty years ago.
I confess I don't really use the tail pockets, although I'll have them put in regardless.

So: trousers, two vertical side pockets (hankerchief) and a fob pocket (key, cards, etc);
waistcoat, two pockets (one for a slim pocket watch, the other functionless);
Coat, outside pocket (pocket square), inside pocket, two tail pockets (empty).

And so most of those would go unused.

I put my wallet inside the inner breast pocket, pocket watch attached to a fob ribbon inside the waistband fob pocket, loose change and keys in the left waistcoat pocket and Oyster card in the right. Trouser side pockets: I put Tube map/train timetables in the left and a hankerchief in the other. All used up (I have no tail pockets).

[YoungLawyer]

I am just waiting for the coat to return from some more alterations (it was my first bespoke commission, so naturally those needed to be done). The tailor said that the fabric had stretched through the shoulders far more than he expected as the cloth - P&B 18/19oz barathea - was softer than he thought. I hope when it comes back the armholes are slightly smaller too, but I didn't talk about that too much. When it does return, there will be pictures! I asked for the tails to be shortened too, as he tried to persuade me of the virtue of longer tails, which were apparently more fashionable in France than the UK. Actually I agreed: from the front, standing a few feet away from someone, if their tails are exactly the same length as the back of their knees, then the coat looks quite short. If the tails are cut a few inches below the knees, then from the front, it looks as if it is knee-length. He suggested that I try the tails about 4 inches below, and then reduce them to fit. However, although it looks better when standing still, I think it looks messy when walking or dancing, so asked for them to be reduced. He also strongly persuaded me not to have more waist supression than I asked for. I may discuss that with him again later. One issue that I found is that the coat may be cut to be quite close to my sides, but doesn't go into the hollow of my back as much as I expected. One other thing that I noticed, and I don't know if it's an issue for other members, is that after a few nights which involved ballroom dancing, the left sleeve looked shorter than the right. It wasn't, of course, but it ended up more creased. I don't know how to avoid that - my guess is that the if sleeves were quite narrow over the forearm, then it wouldn't creep down so much.


One question though, which might be worth a seperate topic, is on the fit of the trousers: How high can/should the inside seam be?

[pretentiousfop]

As white tie is the the style of dress I prefer more and more in contrast to the unfortunate fashion "trends" being seen around the globe, I decided to start from scratch. I wear white tie often, while attending the opera or symphony in Boston to traveling trans-Atlantic on Cunard's Queen Mary 2. Here are my wife and I earlier this month sailing east from New York to Southampton on QM2:



I had the tailcoat and formal trousers done by my friend Ravi in Thailand (http://www.mycustomtailor.com). The one issue was with the trousers. I defy anyone, anywhere to find a gentleman wearing white tie with the proper trousers, even when all the details that oftentimes are not attended to these days with white tie otherwise look proper (e.g., wearing a cummerbund instead of a white piqué waistcoat, wearing a turndown collar rather than a wing collar, black studs or no studs at all instead of white mother of pearl or gold studs, etc.). I had to send the trousers back because they were single rather than double-piped, as specified by Alan Flusser in Dressing the Man on page 248:



I received back the proper double-piped trousers, and all was well. The peak lapel had a button hole of course, with a string sewn on the reverse to hold the stem of the boutonniere as appropriate. Also, the four buttons on the end of each sleeve were working buttons.

As for the waistcoat, I purchased the white piqué standard from Ede & Ravenscroft:

http://shop.edeandravenscroft.co.uk/pro ... -waistcoat

as I did the proper sized self-tie bow tie in white piqué:

http://shop.edeandravenscroft.co.uk/pro ... rcella-bow

As for the shirt, Brooks Brothers has once again been selling their classic stiff white piqué bib, detachable collar, single barrel with side vent and trouser tab shirt, which I had monogrammed:

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProd ... ctionsize=

Add to that Peal & Co. patent leather (or calfskin) opera pumps also sold by Brooks Brothers, and the ensemble is complete:

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProd ... ctionsize=

or

http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProd ... ctionsize=

Don't forget the white formal gloves and of course collapsible silk tophat, both available from many vendors worldwide. I also have an antique (but perfectly preserved) United States Navy cape for the winter months. An ensemble that cannot be beat!

[rodes]

Coat is fine,wife is finer.

[Charlie Huang]

I had to buy a pair of vintage black tie trousers (could not find the white tie version) that had a sufficent rise (i.e. very high), take the single fancy braid out then hand stitch a double line of plain braid in (which took forever). After that I also hemmed the leg with a slant.

I also had to make more of an effort with the shirt which I bought from Dracy's (neé Vintage Shirt Company) as the front stiff bib was too long (as is always the case with modern dress shirts making the bib enter the trousers and bellow out when you sit down; you could see this happening even in period dramas when they just bought the shirt RTW!) so I had to take the bib apart and shorten it by 6" (and I also installed brace loops whilst I was at it) before sending it off to Barkers for the starching. The edges of the bib are not very cleanly done (as it was my first attempt!) but you can't see the edges anyway when the waistcoat goes over. Of course, I'll have to get the shirt done bespoke one day but this will do for now.

I also would be attempting to make a DB waistcoat in the coming month...

The lengths I have to go to to satisfy my exacting standards!

[Charlie Huang]

My attempt at the waistcoat was a success!


Basic body complete before buttonholing.


Inside lining.



Handsewn buttonholes and stud holes.


Two-pronged buckle.


Trying it on (pardon odd stud as one of a set was missing and I had to use another smaller one).


Trying it on with tailcoat (pardon the shirt as well).

The most time consuming part was button alignment. Everything else was pretty straightforward. Not bad for my first attempt at a waistcoat!

I used stiff cotton marcella, linen canvas and a pure silk back/lining.