Does anyone know how is the quality in T.M.Lewin shirts? The prices are low in this period, they have many patterns to choose from but i'm not sure about their durability.
Is there something better in the low-end or mid-end?
http://www.tmlewin.co.uk/Content.aspx?c ... uction.htm
http://www.tmlewin.co.uk/ProductList.as ... heckshirts
T.M. Lewin quality and low-end or mid-end shirts
Perfectly decent shirt, middle of the road. The cloth, construction, buttons and the rest are fine but nothing to write home about. Comparable to Tyrwhitt or Thomas Pink.
It used to be a real bespoke shirtmaker but changed to a mostly mail-order company selling shirts made in the Third World, which allows it to offer constant half-off prices. It's one way of surviving, and it will one day kill the few quality shirtmakers left in Britain. I believe it was profiled in a New York Times blog recently.
It used to be a real bespoke shirtmaker but changed to a mostly mail-order company selling shirts made in the Third World, which allows it to offer constant half-off prices. It's one way of surviving, and it will one day kill the few quality shirtmakers left in Britain. I believe it was profiled in a New York Times blog recently.
Their sizing is slightly variable, as one might expect in this range. In general, I have found them to run slightly small in the collar (a 15 1/2 usually comes in more like 15 1/4 after home laundry and hand pressing) which actually works to my advantage. The shape and proportions of both standard collar styles (PoW and Windsor) work well for me, as does the standard 1 3/4" back collar height, which is an eighth taller than most comparable U.S. shirts (and an eighth shorter than my MTM shirts). The collar construction is interesting, using an extra layer of interlining (not fused to the outer cloth) at the leaves which does not extend around the back of the neck. This gives more body where it's needed and less stiffness where it's not, making the shirt a little more comfortable and presumably reducing the wear a bit at along the fold. The cloths vary in quality (the "luxury" ones are usually a little nicer, and usually can be had for the same price in the various "sales") but all in all at 4 or 5 for £100 with a favorable exchange rate, they are excellent value for money. At that price, when I get the regular cut, I can take them to my local bespoke shirtmaker to tailor the body and sleeves for me, and still end up spending less per shirt than a much inferior unaltered department store shirt, and considerably less than a stock Brooks Brothers RTW OCBD. If I resign myself to accepting darts, I can wear the slim fit ones out of the box for even less. As rjman indicates, they aren't in the Matuozzo/Bonfanti or Charvet league, but until I can afford bespoke shirts these make up the majority of my non-casual rotation. With reasonable care, they continue to look good for quite a number of wearings. When I bring them in for alteration, Ray (of Ray's Custom Shirts in Phila.) always remarks how much he likes the collar construction and (sometimes) the cloth, which I take to be a good sign. Of course, they have some plug-ugly cloth and some that's a little flimsy, but you can usually tell well enough from the photos to avoid those. Personally I prefer them to Tyrwhitt or Pink, though certainly in the same category. Most of mine are closer to Coles in quality although Lewin's cut and collars work better for me.
Whilst they may be in the same "mass market" channel, I do not think Pink come anywhere close to TML or CT because they are significantly more expensive. In my view their quality has declined over the years since the Mullen brothers sold out, leaving them no better than the other two names here, and therefore less than interesting as a comparison purely on the basis of price.
Although I agree that some of the TML fabrics and patterns leave a little to be desired, they key point for me is that their collars and cuffs are not fused, and nicely shaped. CT on the other hand seem only to produce fused collars and cuffs. It may be only a personl thing, but I give fusing of shirt components the thumbs down.
When it comes to value for money, at £25 or so I think it is hard to beat TML; it makes their products cheaper in the main than the high street, but of much better quality. A white poplin or blue bengal stripe from TML at that price makes, in my view, far more sense than an similar looking shirt at twice or three times the price from another shirtmaker if it is to be worn day in day out on the train/bus/plane etc.
Although I agree that some of the TML fabrics and patterns leave a little to be desired, they key point for me is that their collars and cuffs are not fused, and nicely shaped. CT on the other hand seem only to produce fused collars and cuffs. It may be only a personl thing, but I give fusing of shirt components the thumbs down.
When it comes to value for money, at £25 or so I think it is hard to beat TML; it makes their products cheaper in the main than the high street, but of much better quality. A white poplin or blue bengal stripe from TML at that price makes, in my view, far more sense than an similar looking shirt at twice or three times the price from another shirtmaker if it is to be worn day in day out on the train/bus/plane etc.
The soft collar of a TML (unlike the hard scratchy collar of a Pink shirt) is indeed comfortable but, as noted above, the collars are always a size too small for the body of the shirt. Their fabrics also tend to deteriorate badly.
The quality at CT has gone downhill badly. The fused collar has a tendency to bubble and the buttons will all fall off after a couple of wears.
Pink are a higher price band and if you are looking in that band there are better options.
For higher quality off the peg shirts (in London) I would recommend Brooks Bros (if you don't mind the bagginess) or Ralph Lauren (if you can stand the overpricing). Curiously I've never purchased a shirt at Turnbull & Asser or Hilditch & Key and would welcome others' comments on the quality and fit of their rtw.
The quality at CT has gone downhill badly. The fused collar has a tendency to bubble and the buttons will all fall off after a couple of wears.
Pink are a higher price band and if you are looking in that band there are better options.
For higher quality off the peg shirts (in London) I would recommend Brooks Bros (if you don't mind the bagginess) or Ralph Lauren (if you can stand the overpricing). Curiously I've never purchased a shirt at Turnbull & Asser or Hilditch & Key and would welcome others' comments on the quality and fit of their rtw.
Opinion on ready to wear shirts will depend on whether or not your proportions fit the makers pattern so what suits me may not suit you. Having said that, Hilditch and Key shirts fit me very well and are well made, I like the collar and the rounded double cuffs and their choice of colour and patterns generally appeals. If you are looking for low priced value for money shirts then I would recommend Harvie and Hudson, again only my opinion but I consider them better than Lewin or CT.
T&A and H&K RTW are certainly a step up in price from Lewin. H&K have a generous body and a classic collar - quite low so good if you have a short neck. T&A have slightly slimmer cut and a higher collar, they also have an MTM option. Both firms used to have quite well made shirts, although it is a couple of years since I bought from either.
In my view Emma Willis has some of the best RTW shirts around; although the range is a little limited the fabrics are of good quality and you will not see them often, if at all, in other RTW ranges. However, they are expensive, almost as much as some bespoke.
Sadly (for my bank balance) since I decided to try bespoke I find I can't go back to more sensible solutions to shirt purchasing!
In my view Emma Willis has some of the best RTW shirts around; although the range is a little limited the fabrics are of good quality and you will not see them often, if at all, in other RTW ranges. However, they are expensive, almost as much as some bespoke.
Sadly (for my bank balance) since I decided to try bespoke I find I can't go back to more sensible solutions to shirt purchasing!
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radicaldog
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I have a couple of recent T&A RTW shirts: good quality and details, solid construction. The value may not be ideal, but with better clothing price-quality ratio tends to increase exponentially rather than proportionally, alas.
I should also note that I have been unable to find a commercial laundry that will successfully iron T&A's unfused collars. I do like unfused collars, but some fused Neapolitan RTW shirts (Barba etc.) look quite good to me, especially if one leaves the collar stays at home. Those also tend to fit me better in the body, but that's of course entirely personal.
I should also note that I have been unable to find a commercial laundry that will successfully iron T&A's unfused collars. I do like unfused collars, but some fused Neapolitan RTW shirts (Barba etc.) look quite good to me, especially if one leaves the collar stays at home. Those also tend to fit me better in the body, but that's of course entirely personal.
As the factory Emma Willis uses for her RTW and "bespoke" is the same one used by Alexander Boyd, Lucy Adams and the Sartorial Executive, you could probably use one of the latter and save a great deal of money over Emma Willis' prices!Scot wrote:T&A and H&K RTW are certainly a step up in price from Lewin. H&K have a generous body and a classic collar - quite low so good if you have a short neck. T&A have slightly slimmer cut and a higher collar, they also have an MTM option. Both firms used to have quite well made shirts, although it is a couple of years since I bought from either.
In my view Emma Willis has some of the best RTW shirts around; although the range is a little limited the fabrics are of good quality and you will not see them often, if at all, in other RTW ranges. However, they are expensive, almost as much as some bespoke.
Sadly (for my bank balance) since I decided to try bespoke I find I can't go back to more sensible solutions to shirt purchasing!
As a skinny cratur, I have encountered difficulty in finding RTW shirts in a 14.5 collar with 'normal' length sleeves (34") and without masses of extra fabric in the body. On visits to London, I have traipsed along Jermyn Street and back to no avail. Lewin's 15" was okay - their collars are a bit tighter - but only the cutaway comes in a slim fit. Tyrwhitt's does a mere 33" sleeve in the 14.5" collar. Neither provides sensational shirtings but I can see how both would offer value for money to those with even slightly fatter necks. An assistant in Pink's walked past me several times without acknowledging me so I have since refused to shop there on principle. Besides, a friend has a couple of shirts from them and is decidedly underwhelmed. New & Lingwood, Hilditch & Key, Turnbull & Asser and Ede & Ravenscroft all seem to do perfectly decent shirts at 14.5" but with bags of room in the body. Harvie & Hudson does the same but at a much more compelling price (their slim-fit range doesn't start until a gargantuan 15"). Among the online retailers, Brass Bones (supposedly MTM) disappointed hugely with substandard shirting, a fused collar that had bubbles from the outset, and dimensions that bore little relation to the measurements provided. Yes, I should probably buy proper bespoke, but we're not exactly blessed with shirtmakers in these parts and £200 seems a lot for a workaday shirt, especially when one requires half a dozen. Though I'm still searching for the holy grail of RTW 14.5" slim-fit shirts, I have been impressed so far with Coles/W.H. Taylor. MoP buttons, unfused collars and cuffs, a half-decent range of colours and patterns and well put together in the UK. Their slim-cut is fine on me but the full-cut ones they had on clearance aren't bad either. I have no idea whose shirtings they use, but they are among the nicest in my wardrobe.
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Frog in Suit
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Azdak,
Since you live in Edinburgh, have you tried Stewart Christie on Queen Street? They claim to offer shirts with detachable collars, studs, etc...They might be able to supply your neck size with sleeves altered to fit. Their web site is at: http://www.stewart-christie.com.
Disclaimer: I have no expereience of them. I just know they exist.
I hope this helps.
Since you live in Edinburgh, have you tried Stewart Christie on Queen Street? They claim to offer shirts with detachable collars, studs, etc...They might be able to supply your neck size with sleeves altered to fit. Their web site is at: http://www.stewart-christie.com.
Disclaimer: I have no expereience of them. I just know they exist.
I hope this helps.
Azdak
I also need a 14.5 inch collar without the body of the shirt looking like a balloon. I have had good results from H&K by asking them to put two darts in the back of their RTW shirts for me. It only takes a few days, doesn't cost much and to date they have always done a very neat job and which irons well. I thnk T&A offer a similar dart service but haven't tried it - although they always seem to do a good job on shortening their RTW sleeves for me.
I also need a 14.5 inch collar without the body of the shirt looking like a balloon. I have had good results from H&K by asking them to put two darts in the back of their RTW shirts for me. It only takes a few days, doesn't cost much and to date they have always done a very neat job and which irons well. I thnk T&A offer a similar dart service but haven't tried it - although they always seem to do a good job on shortening their RTW sleeves for me.
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Frog in Suit
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New & Lingwood also have what they call, I think, "own stock" shirts, where they alter the sleeve length, and possibly the waist as well, of a RTW shirt. It is not much more expensive than RTW.
Frog in Suit
Frog in Suit
Thank you, Glenroyal, for mentioning the darts option. H&K offered this when I visited but I wasn't going to be in town for long enough. I plan to try it out with an alterations tailor on one of my standard-cut Coles shirts after it has been through the wash a couple of times.
And thanks, FiS. I know about Stewart Christie but have always been a bit wary of going in there lest I emerge with a pair of plus-twos and, heaven forbid, a tweed baseball cap! I hadn't even considered such horrors could exist until I followed your link. Mercifully, there were no photos. I'm also fairly sure Stewart Christie won't have anything by way of low and mid-end shirts, either in quality or in price. I hadn't realised they did tunic shirts, though.
No matter how good the quality of an RTW shirt (or, indeed, RTW anything), there will come a price point at which one might as well have bespoke because it would be daft not to. Up until that point, however, there's always the question of whether it's worth paying that little bit extra for the next step up. As we all know, price does not necessarily equate to quality, but even those who offer decent quality at a decent price can't always offer a decent fit (to everybody). Too many fail on all three counts.
And thanks, FiS. I know about Stewart Christie but have always been a bit wary of going in there lest I emerge with a pair of plus-twos and, heaven forbid, a tweed baseball cap! I hadn't even considered such horrors could exist until I followed your link. Mercifully, there were no photos. I'm also fairly sure Stewart Christie won't have anything by way of low and mid-end shirts, either in quality or in price. I hadn't realised they did tunic shirts, though.
No matter how good the quality of an RTW shirt (or, indeed, RTW anything), there will come a price point at which one might as well have bespoke because it would be daft not to. Up until that point, however, there's always the question of whether it's worth paying that little bit extra for the next step up. As we all know, price does not necessarily equate to quality, but even those who offer decent quality at a decent price can't always offer a decent fit (to everybody). Too many fail on all three counts.
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