Continuing a previous thread...
I'm about to have a first bespoke suit made, and would welcome any advice. The nearest picture that I've found to what I would like is that on current Ede and Ravenscroft advertising, which shows a double breasted suit in a grey wool/cashmere flannel. It looks wonderful, of course, but isn't robust enough. So I was going to ask for a double breasted suit in a mid/dark grey, and was going to look for a worsted fabric in a subtle herringbone of about 14oz. I was going to copy the style, with medium width, but quite high, peak lapels, and 6 to 4 button. I'd ask for small armholes, straight pockets and a ticket pocket. I'd ask for trousers cut for braces with a turnup. I've seen dark brown buttons with grey suits, but don't like the look, and would stick to black. The aim would be for something serious and inconspicious enough for court, as well as for social occasions.
My next business suit would be a darker more sombre s/b 3 piece, to replace my current one which is getting rather tired, so I'd like to allow myself to find a darker fabric then, which might influence my choice now. I'm also trying to save for a dress coat, which I'd really like to be done before April, so am not looking to bankrupt myself on this suit. After looking at a few off the row tailors in London, I've decided that Sims & McDonald, or Connock and Lockie might be good choices.
If anyone has any advice, do feel free to offer it.
First bespoke suit, London
Good idea the gray herringbone DB suit. If you like your trousers cut for braces (another good idea), see that the waist is high enough and don't skimp on thigh width. If you like your peak lapels high, you need to move the buttoning stance a bit higher up, too - so make sure the coat isn't on the long side. I would let go of the ticket pocket, which is a rustic detail that doesn't really belong on a city suit. I agree with you on the rest of the details.
Side vents on the coat or none?
Side vents on the coat or none?
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YoungLawyer
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Thank you Costi,
I'd go for side vents, and a slightly shorter jacket length. I'm actually quite keen on the ticket pocket, as it's the only one of those pockets that I ever use, and is just the right size for an oyster card. I'm unsure of the width of the trousers to ask for. I'm rather thin, and wouldn't wish to end up with Oxford bags! Would single reverse pleats be a good option?
I'd go for side vents, and a slightly shorter jacket length. I'm actually quite keen on the ticket pocket, as it's the only one of those pockets that I ever use, and is just the right size for an oyster card. I'm unsure of the width of the trousers to ask for. I'm rather thin, and wouldn't wish to end up with Oxford bags! Would single reverse pleats be a good option?
Unless the grey is going to be of a dark shade, you might also consider grey horn buttons. Richard James Weldon stock them, both in 2-hole and 4-hole versions, so your tailor should be able to get them for you quite easily. Otherwise, I agree that black (matte) would be nice.
I like ticket pockets on city suits but prefer to do without turnups on trousers, but they are just stylistic preferences for me.
As for your preference for the lapel height, I think that you should go with whatever you can carry off / suits your physique. If, for example, you have a very prominent chest, then I would not make them too high. However, that is just my visual preference.
Most importantly, have fun in the process.
s
I like ticket pockets on city suits but prefer to do without turnups on trousers, but they are just stylistic preferences for me.
As for your preference for the lapel height, I think that you should go with whatever you can carry off / suits your physique. If, for example, you have a very prominent chest, then I would not make them too high. However, that is just my visual preference.
Most importantly, have fun in the process.
s
If it's just a matter of having a place to keep your card, you can have a special inside pocket sewn into the lining of the coat at the level of the hip. Here is what it looks like, and it doesn't disrupt the line of the coat on the outside:
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DD MacDonald
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Costi, I have that internal, lower pocket in most if not all my jackets and rarely use it. Whatever the antecedents of the ticket pocket, I find that it has complete utility on a city suit for rail/subway tickets and the modern hotel key. Sure you can put them elsewhere, but I never have to fish around for them when they are in a ticket pocket. As to ticket pockets on DBs, stylistically I'm not there despite the utility and I miss the ticket pocket when i wear Double Breasteds.
May I ask about the vertical pocket on the left-inside of your jacket? I've not seen that and rather than muse about its function for you, I thought i'd ask.
BTW, nice execution on the buggy lining on that suit. Do I recall that the cloth was the first lt gray Brisa? I had a suit made from the chalk stripe which I think is great. Do you remember if the grays are the same on each?
DDM
May I ask about the vertical pocket on the left-inside of your jacket? I've not seen that and rather than muse about its function for you, I thought i'd ask.
BTW, nice execution on the buggy lining on that suit. Do I recall that the cloth was the first lt gray Brisa? I had a suit made from the chalk stripe which I think is great. Do you remember if the grays are the same on each?
DDM
I think the ticket pocket is not indispendable and its function can easily be transferred to other pockets. I have it on a few coats (and overcoats), too, and now I wish I could make it disappear 
I always wear the flap inside to make it less conspicuous, because I don't like the way it disrupts the line, especially on a DB. Of course, this is just my opinion and option.
The other, upper pocket is for the handkerchief. It is always easily accessible, even when seated. This is the gray Brisa indeed - I don't have the striped version, so I don't know if it is the same gray. Great cloth! I am very tempted by the black version for a summer dinner suit recently proposed.
I always wear the flap inside to make it less conspicuous, because I don't like the way it disrupts the line, especially on a DB. Of course, this is just my opinion and option.The other, upper pocket is for the handkerchief. It is always easily accessible, even when seated. This is the gray Brisa indeed - I don't have the striped version, so I don't know if it is the same gray. Great cloth! I am very tempted by the black version for a summer dinner suit recently proposed.
No Oxford bags, but no narrow leg, low rise long johns either. I like double forward pleats on mine, particularly if they are cut for braces.YoungLawyer wrote: I'm unsure of the width of the trousers to ask for. I'm rather thin, and wouldn't wish to end up with Oxford bags! Would single reverse pleats be a good option?
Here is your suit (more or less):
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YoungLawyer
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Costi,
Absolutely - but a darker cloth, and perhaps narrower trousers than are shewn there. I think I'd have the top two buttons slightly out of line, and miss out on having all 6 button-holes cut. Other than that - very close!
That's an interesting thought on grey buttons. I think it's better with some contrast on a d/b, either mid grey to brown buttons or dark grey to black, but that's just my opinion. Does anyone have any suggestions on cloth?
I'm stubbornly sticking to the ticket pocket - it's something that I use, and I consider it small enough not to be a huge distraction.
Thank you for the replies.
Absolutely - but a darker cloth, and perhaps narrower trousers than are shewn there. I think I'd have the top two buttons slightly out of line, and miss out on having all 6 button-holes cut. Other than that - very close!
That's an interesting thought on grey buttons. I think it's better with some contrast on a d/b, either mid grey to brown buttons or dark grey to black, but that's just my opinion. Does anyone have any suggestions on cloth?
I'm stubbornly sticking to the ticket pocket - it's something that I use, and I consider it small enough not to be a huge distraction.
Thank you for the replies.
Working in London would mean that the ticket pocket, whilst not entirely 'classic' - whatever that means - would be very useful for an Oyster card to avoid searching. I would certainly go for it and hang the purists.
The vertical pocket that Costi evidences might be an alternative but I would be concerned about things falling out if you bend down.
What other pockets are you proposing inside the jacket and the trousers? Worth thinking through what you want and getting extras or having them the size you need for what you might carry.
The vertical pocket that Costi evidences might be an alternative but I would be concerned about things falling out if you bend down.
What other pockets are you proposing inside the jacket and the trousers? Worth thinking through what you want and getting extras or having them the size you need for what you might carry.
As for the cloth, I recently tried out a different approach, which is to ask my cutter with which cloths he and the tailors enjoy working. Unsurprisingly, Lesser's name gets uttered first. That said, at 14 oz, I think what is available from English mills are all rather nice; even the Italians have some nice cloth, eg, the Savile Row book from Loro Piana (whom I would not normally consider) has cloths that feel like English cloths that have become more supple through a bit of use, if that makes any sense.
As for the ticket pocket question, I would not take my views seriously to be something that is correct since I sometimes wear brown or even tweed in town, but considering the context, I think the outside ticket pocket makes some sense if we resort to practicality of any particular feature of the jacket. First, I think the intended use for storing the Oyster Card is an important consideration. Then, it is likely that reaching into the inside ticket pocket of a DB jacket will, unlike that of a SB jacket, require unbuttoning the front or otherwise require some awkward movements that are probably undesirable during rush hour at the Tube station. I usually have my phone in the inside ticket pocket and recently have stopped bothering to answer calls when I am wearing a DB jacket.
As for the ticket pocket question, I would not take my views seriously to be something that is correct since I sometimes wear brown or even tweed in town, but considering the context, I think the outside ticket pocket makes some sense if we resort to practicality of any particular feature of the jacket. First, I think the intended use for storing the Oyster Card is an important consideration. Then, it is likely that reaching into the inside ticket pocket of a DB jacket will, unlike that of a SB jacket, require unbuttoning the front or otherwise require some awkward movements that are probably undesirable during rush hour at the Tube station. I usually have my phone in the inside ticket pocket and recently have stopped bothering to answer calls when I am wearing a DB jacket.
Gents, my considerations with regard to ticket pockets on city suits have less to do with the "rules" (although I did invoke them when I wrote it was a "rustic" detail) and more to do with aesthetics. I like a clean line on a business suit - let the cut and fit speak, not the added "tricks" that do nothing but spoil it. I won't be convinced by anyone justifying a ticket pocket with practical arguments, because one can very well do without - in my mind it is simply a desire to have it for its own sake...
YoungLawyer, I posted the illustration for two reasons:
1. To show you what I think a good pair of trousers looks like, particularly when cut for braces and worn as part of a DB suit: high waisted, full at the hip and tapering slightly towards the ankles. It would be a real shame to make them too narrow, you have absolutely nothing to gain, either in terms of comfort or aesthetics.
2. To show you how a ticket pocket on a DB suit is nothing but a distraction and possibly talk you out of it. Isn't this much better? (please excuse the rough editing):
The buttoning stance shown here is special as the buttons are all in line (like a U), unlike the more usual model (like a Y). The third buttonhole in the lapel is optional. I have a suit done like this in a dark chocolate brown (so the buttonhole is not so noticeable) and I like the way it looks. You don't notice what is different right away. Here is another illustration of this kind:
There goes the ticket pocket again... However, please note that both this grey flannel suit and the the green one above are NOT business suits, so I would not recommend either this butonning stance or the ticket pocket for your planned commission. Again, note the width, the length and the elegant line of the trousers (not possible if they are narrower).
YoungLawyer, I posted the illustration for two reasons:
1. To show you what I think a good pair of trousers looks like, particularly when cut for braces and worn as part of a DB suit: high waisted, full at the hip and tapering slightly towards the ankles. It would be a real shame to make them too narrow, you have absolutely nothing to gain, either in terms of comfort or aesthetics.
2. To show you how a ticket pocket on a DB suit is nothing but a distraction and possibly talk you out of it. Isn't this much better? (please excuse the rough editing):
The buttoning stance shown here is special as the buttons are all in line (like a U), unlike the more usual model (like a Y). The third buttonhole in the lapel is optional. I have a suit done like this in a dark chocolate brown (so the buttonhole is not so noticeable) and I like the way it looks. You don't notice what is different right away. Here is another illustration of this kind:
There goes the ticket pocket again... However, please note that both this grey flannel suit and the the green one above are NOT business suits, so I would not recommend either this butonning stance or the ticket pocket for your planned commission. Again, note the width, the length and the elegant line of the trousers (not possible if they are narrower).
More images:
A Kent-style grey herringbone DB suit - the middle button MAY be buttoned (note how the actuall roll of the lapel starts just above the waist level buttonhole), but the lapel is ironed so that it rolls through toward the lower button. Good to illustrate the small armholes to your tailor. Excellent trousers. And no ticket pocket
Courtesy of Michael Alden - to illustrate the high peak lapels and what the buttoning stance needs to look like in this case.
A Kent-style grey herringbone DB suit - the middle button MAY be buttoned (note how the actuall roll of the lapel starts just above the waist level buttonhole), but the lapel is ironed so that it rolls through toward the lower button. Good to illustrate the small armholes to your tailor. Excellent trousers. And no ticket pocket
Courtesy of Michael Alden - to illustrate the high peak lapels and what the buttoning stance needs to look like in this case.
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DD MacDonald
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Costi, thanks for the observations.
I think that one of the great things about bespoke is that we each can choose what we know works for us and experiment with new ideas and configurations. That I deploy a ticket pocket and you consign the function elsewhere is a perfect example. I like the ticket pocket on a city suit for the utility, have mixed feelings about it on a country tweed but use it, and never put it on a DB (but miss it).
DDM
I think that one of the great things about bespoke is that we each can choose what we know works for us and experiment with new ideas and configurations. That I deploy a ticket pocket and you consign the function elsewhere is a perfect example. I like the ticket pocket on a city suit for the utility, have mixed feelings about it on a country tweed but use it, and never put it on a DB (but miss it).
DDM
DDM, well said -- the opportunity to consider options for every little detail. That is also the reason why I think it is important to enjoy the process rather than get earnest about achieving perfection, especially with the first projects. As you say, the spirit of experimentation is important.
Costi, I agree that the outside ticket pocket interrupts the line, more so as the distance between the ticket pocket and the hip pocket increases. My cutter took off his patch outbreast pocket from one of his odd jackets for the identical reason. I think it comes down to whether one is bothered by the fact that certain bits interrupt the line. Horizontal flap hip pockets do a very effective job at utterly breaking the line (at least they do so in a symmetrical manner given that we tend to have one on each side, and we should not even mention patch hip pockets...), but they don't bother me. As you say, the cut and fit is of primary importance; if done properly, they won't be pushed aside, or indeed enhanced, by little 'tricks' like an outside ticket pocket (or four if one is an old school skinhead ).
s
Costi, I agree that the outside ticket pocket interrupts the line, more so as the distance between the ticket pocket and the hip pocket increases. My cutter took off his patch outbreast pocket from one of his odd jackets for the identical reason. I think it comes down to whether one is bothered by the fact that certain bits interrupt the line. Horizontal flap hip pockets do a very effective job at utterly breaking the line (at least they do so in a symmetrical manner given that we tend to have one on each side, and we should not even mention patch hip pockets...), but they don't bother me. As you say, the cut and fit is of primary importance; if done properly, they won't be pushed aside, or indeed enhanced, by little 'tricks' like an outside ticket pocket (or four if one is an old school skinhead
). s
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