Horizontal shirt stripes

[Etutee]

I guess I should clarify one thing that may not be clear to new members or people who have missed earlier discussions.
When I recommend horizontal stripe shirts or anything its final result is NOT in the abstract or for a mannequin but for a "person" or wearer and as such I can only give suggestions but ultimately it is up to the wearer to decide (or others if he is being helped) whether a particular option is desirable or not. I just don't want to sound like making a broad statement like horizontal / vertical stripes are good for all..... and that sort of thing.

More important than knowing what to wear is to know what you cannot or what your limitations (at the moment) are. These are not set in stone and can be changed for a number of reasons. However, unless you are aware of your sartorial choices, you will likely be forever going in circles.

Carry on

cheers

[Manself]

I was reading this thread thinking how over the top shirts with horizontal stripes are, when I realised that I'm wearing one today. It's a mix of pink, white and red, but the stripes are very narrow and from any distance it just looks pink. The cuffs are vertically, rather than horizontally striped. It was made for me by Simone Abbarchi in Florence, and I've worn it so often I need to order another, if the fabric is still available.

[marcelo]

No joke: could there be an unconscious reason for a certain reserve towards shirts with horizontal stripes, given the association they evoke? Or, rather, is this association itself explained in virtue of the fact that the horizontal stripes do unavoidably attract too much attention, so much that one could not hope to escape the glance of other persons, even when not carrying around an iron ball while wearing a shirt with horizontal stripes? This is not really a joke, but a question of sartorial psychology.

[Costi]

But horizontal stripes are not the only option:

[couch]

Marcelo, I'm sure you're correct that there are psychological associations with bold stripes (running in any direction), since their high visibility has caused them to be used for clothing designed to make the wearer stand out. The point of prisoners' stripes is to separate these persons at a glance from the general population, both as a shaming practice and to identify them as potentially dangerous should they come in contact with civilians. Sports uniforms use bold stripes to help identify team members from a distance and to differentiate one team from the other:

Here Heidi Klum wittily shows that the bold black-and-white (vertical) stripes of the American football referee can attract attention even when the jersey is attenuated:



For most people today the positive, rugged association with sports uniforms probably outweighs the prisoner association with bold stripes, as attested by the popularity of striped polo and rugby shirts as casual wear, not to mention things like rowing club blazers:



My guess is that the reserve (excellent word) towards more restrained horizontal stripes in tailored contexts, especially town business wear, is due more to their simple unfamiliarity in such contexts. Vertical stripes in suitings contribute to a single unified (and yes, slimming) impression, and vertically striped shirtings can similarly contribute, so they're much more common than lateral stripes where relatively understated clothing is mandatory. (Horizontally striped shirtings, as etutee shows, are trickier to combine, especially in ensembles with several moving parts, such as odd jacket/trousers or morning dress.)

So the simple rarity of horizontal shirtings, together with their lingering sportif associations, would be enough to make most men, probably without knowing quite why, feel a little uneasy about wearing them in tailored contexts. Departing from a social norm is always a little scary, and always an assertion of individuality, whether subtle or obnoxious. You're right that this is a (perhaps unconscious) psychological effect, and I agree with etutee that it need not be decisive. One must recognize the effect and then simply make proper allowances for it, both in composing an ensemble and in preparing mentally to carry it off. As he says:

Remember the more your shirt exposure the more likely people are to notice the horizontal aspect of it and unless such is your intention I would advise to limit the exposure.

Cheers.

[carl browne]

Very pleased that my post elicited such a spirited response. I take all of these comments to heart except Jordan Marc's, which come far, far, too close to the mark, and nevertheless persuade me to enjoy a large and satisfying breakfast of expresso, expresso, expresso, and . . . expresso.

It might be better to wade into this slowly. Mightn't it be best to start with a VERTICAL stripe, and simply do the collar?

If that works, try a horizontal with a low contrast stripe, and from there try a stronger one.

This is one of the joys of bespoke--I have the rest of my life to work this out!

One other thing: if the horizontal stripe is worn with a closed DB in a dark color, wouldn't it serve to make the chest appear broader, while the dark suit-cloth around the waist by contrast tend to make the waist look narrower?

[couch]

One other thing: if the horizontal stripe is worn with a closed DB in a dark color, wouldn't it serve to make the chest appear broader, while the dark suit-cloth around the waist by contrast tend to make the waist look narrower?

I would think so. LIkewise with a closed SB. But this effect would be reduced as the wrap (on the DB) or button point (SB) gets higher. If most of the body were covered in the suiting, with just a small panel of shirt showing under the neck, there would not be much broadening effect. So I'd think you'd be trading off the noticeability of the stripe against the broadening effect (more discreet = less broadening; more broadening = more assertively horizontal). But in any case, the angle of V formed by the jacket lapels, the gorge height, the shape of the triangle of exposed shirt, and the width of the jacket shoulders would all act on a larger scale to affect the perception of chest/shoulder vs. waist breadth; the shirt pattern's effect would be secondary.

[Etutee]

New pictures added in my original post along with text.

http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... 048#p44385

Cheers!

[Leon]

Another shot of Jaime de Marichalar, in a horizontally striped shirt. This time a neckband shirt, in morning wear. The DB waistcoat reducing the exposed triangle of shirt.



Leon

[couch]

^ Also a good illustration of etutee's point about the light/warm color of the tie coming forward while the cooler blue recedes in relation to the tie and collar, so that they don't compete for attention.

(It is a traditional technique of landscape painting to concentrate warm colors in the foreground, neutrals in the middle distance, and hazy cool blues in the background to further the illusion of depth. Works for clothes too.)

[El Aristócrata]

D. Jaime de Marichalar is taller than the average men and, in my view, this is why these horizontal stripes look nice on him. If I were not that tall I would rather go for the vertical ones.
EA

[Scot]

^ Also a good illustration of etutee's point about the light/warm color of the tie coming forward while the cooler blue recedes in relation to the tie and collar, so that they don't compete for attention.

(It is a traditional technique of landscape painting to concentrate warm colors in the foreground, neutrals in the middle distance, and hazy cool blues in the background to further the illusion of depth. Works for clothes too.)

In contrast to paintings, human beings are already three-dimensional objects. Quite why the "illusion of depth" is required I am not sure. The shirt looks like something that should be worn on the golf course.

[Manself]

I'm with Scot on this. A shirt with such a bold stripe that it reads as horizontal from a distance is too much, outside of a nightclub. Perhaps this is a British thing (or even a Scottish thing) but the wedding guest's shirt is much too jazzy for my taste.

Etutee's revised entry is characteristically comprehensive, useful and informative, but I did conclude that the shirts look better with a white collar, and probably benefit from the DB jacket, which may be something to do with the fact that the DB jacket minimises the amount of shirt visible.

[Bishop of Briggs]

I'm with Scot on this. A shirt with such a bold stripe that it reads as horizontal from a distance is too much, outside of a nightclub. Perhaps this is a British thing (or even a Scottish thing) but the wedding guest's shirt is much too jazzy for my taste.

Etutee's revised entry is characteristically comprehensive, useful and informative, but I did conclude that the shirts look better with a white collar, and probably benefit from the DB jacket, which may be something to do with the fact that the DB jacket minimises the amount of shirt visible.

It is not Scottish!

[Scot]

I'm with Scot on this. A shirt with such a bold stripe that it reads as horizontal from a distance is too much, outside of a nightclub. Perhaps this is a British thing (or even a Scottish thing) but the wedding guest's shirt is much too jazzy for my taste.

Etutee's revised entry is characteristically comprehensive, useful and informative, but I did conclude that the shirts look better with a white collar, and probably benefit from the DB jacket, which may be something to do with the fact that the DB jacket minimises the amount of shirt visible.

It is not Scottish!

I am not quite sure to what you object Bishop! I don't think Manself meant to imply that the propensity to wear such shirts was in any way Scottish, rather, that the British, and/or Scottish, were in general likely to feel uncomfortable doing so. I agree. Stroll around Mayfair or St. James's, or indeed the New Town of Edinburgh, and count the number of suited men you see wearing a bold horizontal stripe on their shirt. There won't be many (probably one in a month of Sundays).