Collar-replacement on Covert Coat

[Guest]

I own a covert coat. It came with a self-collar and I decided I wanted a velvet collar on it. So I bought a length of velvet and took it to my seamstress to replace the collar...The outcome is horrendous! In lack of a better word I would describe it as puffed. The collar does not sit flush with the lapels and is quite wrinkled.... I had this kind of operation done years before on another coat by my former tailor and it was perfect. Unfortunately he is no longer around...
Do you have any advice I could pass on to my seamstress?

Regards Cordoba

[Guest]

There are actually 2 ways to do the velvet collar. One is to actually replace the collar leaf, as you describe it, and the other is to lay the velvet over the collar leaf without replacing it. The former can be a nightmare even for a proper tailor, not to mention an alteration tailor or a seamstress, if the coat was machine made. The latter can be done properly provided that whoever is doing it understands collar construction and knows to press the overlay properly. I have had this done on one my coats. In fact, this method is favoured by some because replacement (once it is worn out and unsightly) will not require undoing the collar all over again.

From the limited information provided, it sounds like she does not really understand jacket collars, so it may not be a case of giving her advice on how to fix it but of finding someone else to do it.

shredder

[Guest]

On a related topic, can members confirm the correct pronunciation for "covert" in this context? I have heard it pronounced "cover" (without the "t") but have never been convinced this is correct.

Any views?

[Guest]

'kô-vərt

Costi

[Guest]

As far as I know, the "T" is silent but only in the case of the noun (the coat, or the bush or thicket), not for the adjective. I would be very grateful if someone would confirm.

Frog in Suit

[Guest]

'kô-vət

Angelo

[Guest]

My Oxford English Dictionary makes no distinction between adjective and noun for pronunciation, nor when used to describe "a short, light overcoat worn for shooting, riding etc".

So, according to the lexicogaphers at Oxford University Press, it is pronounced with the t, and with the stress on the first syllable.

Sartorius

[Guest]

According to my Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, as a noun the 't' is always heard. As an adjective, the t-sound may be omitted. Actually, only 9% of native speakers are supposed to pronounce the it in this case. Which is the LL members preference?



Marcelo

[Guest]

According to my Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, as a noun the 't' is always heard. As an adjective, the t-sound may be omitted. Actually, only 9% of native speakers are supposed to pronounce the it in this case. Which is the LL members preference?



Marcelo

OOOps, I think I was on mistake: the poll does not refer to the "t" sound, but the the first vowel in the word.

[Guest]

As a thicket, covering game, I should omit the 't' (so 'cover' coat) but all else such as the adjective meaning hidden - with the 't'.
NJS

[Guest]

According to my Longman Pronunciation Dictionary, as a noun the 't' is always heard. As an adjective, the t-sound may be omitted. Actually, only 9% of native speakers are supposed to pronounce the it in this case. Which is the LL members preference?



Marcelo

The dictionary quoted here seems to support my view: it has a secondary "t-less" pronunciation in the case of the noun only. I do not see any evidence of it in the adjective. The statistics quoted concern the first syllable ("cov-") of the adjective. I have heard only "cover" (no "t") when applied to the coat (noun). My own pronouncing dictionary (Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary) does not agree with me (Hard evidence has never stopped me from sticking to my guns ).

Could the native BE speakers on the forum (RP only, preferably over fifty years of age, with a demonstrated interest in a) field sports b) bespoke tailoring ) decide the matter?

Frog in Suit

[Guest]

I've had my little say but I am not just yet over 50 so am not able to decide it!!
NJS

[Guest]

I've had my little say but I am not just yet over 50 so am not able to decide it!!
NJS

But you are interested in bespoke tailoring. So "cover" (no "t") coat is correct, is it not?

Frog in Suit

[Guest]

Dear FiS,
Just joking - I am sure that you are right.
best,
NJS.

[Guest]

The dictionary quoted here seems to support my view: it has a secondary "t-less" pronunciation in the case of the noun only.

Sorry to be pedantic but this is really quite interesting. Would somebody mind posting the guide to the symbols in the scanned Longman Dictionary above? If it does indeed support the pronunciation FiS suggests, I would like hard evidence (being not just under 50 but just about under 40 as well! ).