An interview with LL member Bruce Boyer

[alden]

A recent interview with LL member Bruce Boyer is a worthwhile read for all of you who have an interest in Americana and Trad dress. It contains a positive remark regarding the LL and it members who are keen to defend the authentic and genuine against the fashion of the time.

http://www.ivy-style.com/bruce-almighty.html

The interview includes a discussion of the “cattiness” omnipresent on clothes oriented sites on the web. It is something we have been fortunate to avoid in the LL over the years.

Cheers

Michael Alden

[Costi]

Thanks for the tip!

IS: Does the notion of authenticity even matter anymore in 2009?
BB: There are certain people out there for whom it matters very much. At a website like The London Lounge, you read what those guys say about clothes, and right away you get the impression that if you don’t fold your pocket square a certain way, none of them will ever speak to you. If you don’t have your shoes made by John Lobb or Cleverley, you’re nothing. So it matters to those guys. But apart from that, fashion is what it is.
IS: We live in an inauthentic world.
BB: That’s exactly it. There’s a lot of style and no substance, and that’s what we’ve come to. The clothing doesn’t reflect what it used to.

The least and the most true Q/A, in my view, one right after the other.
The essential points of the article are spot on, I think.

[yialabis]

At a website like The London Lounge, you read what those guys say about clothes, and right away you get the impression that if you don’t fold your pocket square a certain way, none of them will ever speak to you. If you don’t have your shoes made by John Lobb or Cleverley, you’re nothing.

If I had ever felt in any of the ways described above I would have left the LL immediately ..

Vassilis

[marcelo]

"IS: The world of online menswear blogs and forums is recognized as a place of draconian cattiness. What’s your take on the Internet?

BB: It’s John Lobb London versus John Lobb Paris, and which one is better. That’s one reason why I don’t get involved. The other reason is that they’re amateurs, and I’m a professional, and I ought to get paid for my opinions."

Would some kind amateur member let me know how to fold a handkerchief correctly?

[ProfMoriarty]

At a website like The London Lounge, you read what those guys say about clothes, and right away you get the impression that if you don’t fold your pocket square a certain way, none of them will ever speak to you. If you don’t have your shoes made by John Lobb or Cleverley, you’re nothing.

If I had ever felt in any of the ways described above I would have left the LL immediately ..

Vassilis

I could not agree with you more, Vassilis. "if you don't (dress) in a certain way, none of them will ever speak to you"?!?!? Nothing could be further from the truth. Now, I do know that there are some staunch opinions and judgments about questions of taste. And folks are glad to share them with others along with the reasoning and history/tradition behind those judgments.
I hope I am not stepping out of line, but it seems appropriate to insert the following:

The gentlemen members of the London Lounge agree to defend, preserve and perpetuate the cultural heritage embodied in the sartorial arts for future generations. Each member will use his energy, skill and education to render comprehensible the virtues of true elegance and good taste to those who seek advice and counsel. The parameters that define good taste are appreciated within these walls as liberating and not restrictive. Only the complete mastery of these fundamentals can lead to individual expressions of elegance. Within the walls of the London Lounge, all subjects of discussion and debate that permit a greater understanding of the bespoke apparel arts are encouraged. They shall be conducted vigorously but with the respect and courtesy befitting Gentlemen. Join us, the inspired champions of an ancient ideal, that of Good Taste!
I would emphasize the words: advice, counsel, taste, liberating, respect, courtesy.
To be fair, I thought otherwise the article and its content were excellent.
jack

[Costi]

Now that we're over the matter of the LL being the Sartorial Inquisition (perhaps Mr. Boyer, who confessed to being an infrequent visitor of the internet, mistook one site for another), what do you think about this poor relationship between content and form, or substance and style in our days? I think there is much truth in this...

[Jovan the Un1337]

I occasionally get the impression that because I don't own any bespoke suits I get ignored. Maybe that isn't the case. I joined this place to learn as much as I could before going for one... someday.

English Cut and other forums led me here. Through reading English Cut I've learned much about this artisanship that is, unfortunately, not as big as it used to be. There's a great art and science to it that is being ignored by so many people who'd rather spend the same money on a designer name. That, to me, is unfortunate. For a few Gs, I'd rather these small businesses that include hard-working men and women get the cash instead of a corporation who basically charge for their own advertisement in half the cost of the garment and something that will not last very long -- in both construction and style.

[Frog in Suit]

There's a great art and science to it that is being ignored by so many people who'd rather spend the same money on a designer name. That, to me, is unfortunate. For a few Gs, I'd rather these small businesses that include hard-working men and women get the cash instead of a corporation who basically charge for their own advertisement in half the cost of the garment and something that will not last very long -- in both construction and style.

Hear, Hear! I could not agree more. Plus getting and wearing a garment that is unique and based on your own choices and requirements and no one else's.

Frog in Suit

[uppercase]

I always enjoy reading Boyer and this interview was excellent.

He always puts Ivy League dressing in a social context which certainly adds another dimension, perhaps controversial to our tender ears today.

He touches on some very broad social themes vis a vis Ivy dress such as class and dress, the authenticity of dressing, being to the manor born vs. the 'taste of the manor', the Old Money Look, populism absconding with the OML from the 40s, natural style vs. costume, social signifiers of Ivy dress, the export of WASP style to Italy, etc.

Really fascinating stuff and quite alot to chew on.

Finally, Boyer states that the igents are amateurs and he is a professional and so, should get paid for his opinions, hence he does not participate in the internet forums.

I absolutely agree with this.

My only Q is, with 1,000 posts under my belt, how do I go about getting paid for my views?!

[Costi]

My only Q is, with 1,000 posts under my belt, how do I go about getting paid for my views?!

Isn't it obvious? Stop posting immediately and become a professional!

[NES]

I think the point here is authenticity. If you read carefully, what Boyer is saying is:

You get the impression that those guys are judging you. But that is not true. The fact is authenticity really matters to them. In the inauthentic world of fashion they are the ones for whom authenticity matters.

That's what he says and I feel it is true.

So, authenticity matters to us in the LL. But, what does that mean?

[NicolausN]

I think the point here is authenticity. If you read carefully, what Boyer is saying is:

You get the impression that those guys are judging you. But that is not true. The fact is authenticity really matters to them. In the inauthentic world of fashion they are the ones for whom authenticity matters.

That's what he says and I feel it is true.

So, authenticity matters to us in the LL. But, what does that mean?

I think the key to this is his answer to the immediately preceding question.

...even now, as far as buying clothes is concerned, everybody is in nostalgia mode. A single way of dressing no longer dominates the market, as it did in other periods. And I think what designers are doing today is trying to recreate an atmosphere that goes with clothing. In other words, a person’s style today, especially among young people, no longer seems natural. There’s no longer any authenticity to it. Everything is in some way a costume.

I think what he's trying to say is that those of us at the LL are not trying to "recreate" something. We actually are trying to continue a tradition in clothing. To say it another way, we're not doing it for "the look" of [insert time period here], we're actually "true believers" about this stuff.

[Guest]

to get paid, you need to start typing and selling your writings to a publisher or magazine. I think Boyer started before there was a online forums, and he wrote columns for newspapers and magazines.
he maybe be a professional, but he is not a great writer. i own three of his books, but i just got them for the pictures in them.

[Gruto]

he maybe be a professional, but he is not a great writer. i own three of his books, but i just got them for the pictures in them.

I don't think that is right. He doesn't write straight forward, but he is witty and you get a feeling that his judgements are founded on a broad knowledge of the subject - that he is a scholar, or "a professional".
.
The pictures in his book are quiet bad actually .

[Costi]

I think the point here is authenticity. If you read carefully, what Boyer is saying is:

You get the impression that those guys are judging you. But that is not true. The fact is authenticity really matters to them. In the inauthentic world of fashion they are the ones for whom authenticity matters.

That's what he says and I feel it is true.

So, authenticity matters to us in the LL. But, what does that mean?

In my view authenticity is about dressing in a certain way because you understand and share the life principles behind it and choose a lifestyle in accordance with them. You stop being authentic when start looking like something you are not. That doesn't preclude growing into something / someone else than you used to be and changing your appearence accordingly.
Anyone can put on a shirt, a tie, a suit and a pair of shoes, but the way one chooses and wears them will reveal whether it is "costume" (as in "dressing for another day at the office", when one would actually much rather wear jeans, a T-shirt and sneakers if one could help it) or a natural way of dressing according to one's tastes and lifestyle.