President Obama's tailor

[carl browne]

Cufflink:

The Vice President, who usually looks pretty smart, wore an attached wing-collar shirt.

I don't care for them

Because the collars are sewn to the shirt rather than attached to it with studs, they never seem to be properly pressed.

Because the collars are generally made from the same cloth as the shirts, they are never stiff enough to look well. Usually the wearer ties the bow a little too tightly around the collar, pressing the cloth against the neck and making it pucker, much the way loose-fitting trousers pucker around the waist when secured with a belt too tightly.

Even the best made bow ties have hooks, eyes, or size adjusters of some kind; all of the apparatus is exposed with this kind of rig, and I find it very unsightly.

All of this was in evidence on the VP's outfit.

The wing collar can be a great thing, but it takes some real effort. You need a bespoke shirt with a seperate stiff collar secured with studs. The shirt needs a loop in back to keep the tie from riding up in back, and the tie should be either sized, or at least have its hardware completely covered by the coat. A pre-tied bow is an abomination.

Otherwise it's best to stick with the turn-down collar.

Sorry, Cufflink, that WAS a rant, wasn't it?

And you're right. Hart Schaffner and Marks WILL keep you humble.

Oxxford's not too bad. That's what I gave up when I went to bespoke. I thought Oxxford would have been a natural for the new Pres. Made in by hand in Chigago by Americans.

Do any of you gentlemen know a really good Chicago bespoke tailor for the new president?

Reagan had a good one in Beverly Hills. I think his name was Mariani.

C

[koolhistorian]

Thank you, gentlemen, for your most interesting comments.
Of course, I did not expect any eulogies on the President's inaugural wear which I also thought rather odd (resembling those tux-rentals).

Second question: Does the President of the United States (not the First Lady) have a 'dress consultant' or is this sensible matter entirely left to his own personal taste?

I think someone has to form a rescue squad for Presidents and Heads of State...sorry for this silly conclusion.

For your second and subsequent question here is the view of Europe:
Both Head of State and First Consort (aside Royal Families, they know the things from an early age) will be advised by the Chief of Protocol (a senior professionally diplomat or an aide which, woken at 4 a.m. can recite you the very details of semi or formal dress); although, the Elected HoS/HoG would feel the urge to express his personality (or his/her spouse), situation in which, praying for a better time, the Chief of Protocol will try, with the help of the Communications Director, to minimise the damage. But he/she will insist on the correct form of dress!
Sadly, if my knowledge is good, there is no Chief of Protocol at the White House, just a Social Secretary to the President.
Hope that the Obama's team or others will understand that!

[garu]

In the past, various administrations have had a "Chief of Protocol. " The problem, Koolhistorian, is that this is not an office or appointment that is a permanent part of the White House or Executive Branch, at least not as you have described it. If Obama is clever, he would do well to follow your sage advice and appoint a knowledgeable person in this capacity.

Ta,
garu

[pchong]

Obama's sartorial performance in the balls were indeed dismal.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 471223.htm

Click on picture in link above for large pic.

notch jacket, white tie, flap on pocket, no cummerbund or waistcoat...low cut trousers...my gosh...what else can go wrong with this outfit. He looks like a servant in Victorian times...their masters making them wear inappropriate formal clothing to differentiate them from the gentlemen. Sigh.

foreign statesmen are not spared...witness Sarkozy in his white tie...waistcoat too long...and what's that peeking out at the bottom...a belt? Not sure if the trousers bear the requisite 2 stripes, but the whole ensemble is awful.

Contrast with Prince Philip...

[storeynicholas]

Obama's sartorial performance in the balls were indeed dismal.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 471223.htm

Click on picture in link above for large pic.

notch jacket, white tie, flap on pocket, no cummerbund or waistcoat...low cut trousers...my gosh...what else can go wrong with this outfit. He looks like a servant in Victorian times...their masters making them wear inappropriate formal clothing to differentiate them from the gentlemen. Sigh.

foreign statesmen are not spared...witness Sarkozy in his white tie...waistcoat too long...and what's that peeking out at the bottom...a belt? Not sure if the trousers bear the requisite 2 stripes, but the whole ensemble is awful.

Contrast with Prince Philip...

The Duke of Edinburgh belongs in the Sartorial Heroes thread. You are perfectly right, of course, countries that are fortunate enough to have kept their monarchs, don't suffer the humiliation of messy dressing in the head of state - Sarkozy here looks as though he has been caught short.
NJS

[shredder]

Re: Sarko. That's what happens when you need to mix and match things from the men's department and the kid's department. I think they are even in different buildings at Galeries Lafayette...

[storeynicholas]

Re: Sarko. That's what happens when you need to mix and match things from the men's department and the kid's department. I think they are even in different buildings at Galeries Lafayette...

There should be an emoticon for ROUND OF APPLAUSE!! And, actually, these observations are not flippant because, that a man cannot even dress himself might be an indicator of his potential as a leader of men. This is not a political point because so many of them look as though they have been dragged through a hedge. It is also good to reflect that monarchs often have rubies nearly the size of cricket balls. Snob? - Yes, that's right!! But so far as President Obama's appearance at the Inauguration Ball is concerned - even if some of the small detail might be criticized - at least his clothes seem to fit and he and the First Lady look, to me, confident, happy, relaxed and natural.
NJS

[Aristide]

Re: Sarko. That's what happens when you need to mix and match things from the men's department and the kid's department. I think they are even in different buildings at Galeries Lafayette...

There should be an emoticon for ROUND OF APPLAUSE!! And, actually, these observations are not flippant because, that a man cannot even dress himself might be an indicator of his potential as a leader of men. This is not a political point because so many of them look as though they have been dragged through a hedge. It is also good to reflect that monarchs often have rubies nearly the size of cricket balls. Snob? - Yes, that's right!! But so far as President Obama's appearance at the Inauguration Ball is concerned - even if some of the small detail might be criticized - at least his clothes seem to fit and he and the First Lady look, to me, confident, happy, relaxed and natural.
NJS

Good God, man. King Edward VIII was the paragon of LL virtue, but could not rule his mind, heart, or body, much less other men.

[storeynicholas]

Re: Sarko. That's what happens when you need to mix and match things from the men's department and the kid's department. I think they are even in different buildings at Galeries Lafayette...

There should be an emoticon for ROUND OF APPLAUSE!! And, actually, these observations are not flippant because, that a man cannot even dress himself might be an indicator of his potential as a leader of men. This is not a political point because so many of them look as though they have been dragged through a hedge. It is also good to reflect that monarchs often have rubies nearly the size of cricket balls. Snob? - Yes, that's right!! But so far as President Obama's appearance at the Inauguration Ball is concerned - even if some of the small detail might be criticized - at least his clothes seem to fit and he and the First Lady look, to me, confident, happy, relaxed and natural.
NJS

Good God, man. King Edward VIII was the paragon of LL virtue, but could not rule his mind, heart, or body, much less other men.

I thought that I might stir something up but I didn't expect that it would be this! Ed VIII remained king for less than 1 year; precisely because he did just what his father predicted - ruin himself within a year of his accession. He disqualified himself. As for his being a paragon of LL virtue - I know that his clothes and dress sense are rightly admired but isn't that as far as it goes? Moreover, I just mean that good monarchs are very likely to be snappy dressers (Ed VII) but not all snappy dressers would make good monarchs (Geo IV).
NJS

[JRLT]

With apologies in advance to our fellow poster FiS I have to stay that I am not at all surprised by Sarkozy's terrible appearance. My work brings me into contact with plenty of Frenchmen of the professional class and their sartorial standards are low. I find the cut and quality of their (French made) suits very poor.

[Mark Seitelman]

The President wears Hart Shaffner & Marx which is a natural for a Chicago politician. Its factory is in Chicago suburbs, and it's a union shop (Unite!).

It's a good, mid-level, respectable suit.

Typically, a friend or close adviser might steer him to another tailor/clothier. The friend will recommend that the president should look more "presidential." Politicians are 100% image conscious.

If the new president strays from Hart Shaffner & Marx, it will be to another American tailor or clothier. I doubt that the new president will go bespoke. If he does venture into bespoke land for an occasional suit or full dress tails, then there will be little publicity.

[Jordan Marc]

Given the difficulties that tailors are having due to the rotten economy, I should think there would be any number of fine tailors banging on the door of the White House to offer their skills to the President. In no particular order of preference, Chris Despos, Leonard Logsdail and Karl Fiedler (aka Charles) would be able to tailor Obama beautifully. By the same token, the President could benefit from a good shirtmaker and an expert shoemaker.

By the same token, the First Lady needs a better dressmaker. Apparently she likes to give newcomers a chance. Nothing wrong with that. But when you wander down Oak Street in Chicago, step into a trendy shop and emerge with a godawful embroidered lime-green spring ensemble to which was added a knitted cardigan for warmth and a pair of bilious green gloves, you need help. A lot of help. What Michelle needs to do is contact Andre Leon Tally of Vogue. He has the eye for what works and what doesn't for women, and he knows true talent from the stars-in-the-eyes wannabes.

JMB

[Mark Seitelman]

Given the difficulties that tailors are having due to the rotten economy, I should think there would be any number of fine tailors banging on the door of the White House to offer their skills to the President. In no particular order of preference, Chris Despos, Leonard Logsdail and Karl Fiedler (aka Charles) would be able to tailor Obama beautifully. By the same token, the President could benefit from a good shirtmaker and an expert shoemaker.

By the same token, the First Lady needs a better dressmaker. Apparently she likes to give newcomers a chance. Nothing wrong with that. But when you wander down Oak Street in Chicago, step into a trendy shop and emerge with a godawful embroidered lime-green spring ensemble to which was added a knitted cardigan for warmth and a pair of bilious green gloves, you need help. A lot of help. What Michelle needs to do is contact Andre Leon Tally of Vogue. He has the eye for what works and what doesn't for women, and he knows true talent from the stars-in-the-eyes wannabes.

JMB

It is very unlikely that the President will go bespoke.

Some manufacturers, such as Hickey Freeman, Southwick, Martin Greenfield, and Oxxford might have their "people" approach Obama's "people" so that the manufacturer has the honor of making a couple of suits for the President. Often, the President's people reach out to the manufacturer.

Typically, the owner or CEO and head tailor go to the White House for a fitting. Think of it as the most exclusive visiting tailor roadshow in the USA.

Martin Greenfiled visited the White House to fit President Clinton. Oxxford's CEO and head tailor and the local retailer (Harold's) visited President-Elect Bush (# 43) at his Crawford, Texas, home. I believe that back in President Johnson's day the Oxxford CEO fitted him. President Johnson was also fitted by the Custom Shop.

The issue of payment and cost is an interesting matter. Does the manufacturer bill the full retail price or a wholesale price? Does the manufacturer charge a greatly reduced price? Does the manufacturer stuff the bill in the drawer and just hope for eventual payment?

I believe that a clothiier must charge for the clothing. Otherwise, it would be deemed an unlawful gift to a public official. The President does not get a clothing allowance. (However, he and the family get free room and board, transportation, and a weekend home.) Therefore, the President must pay for his own clothes, or else he would be brought down by the publicity and ethics violations.

Therefore, the President's clothing matters will be kept private. He can gain good will by buying from an American manfacturer, but, he has no political advantage by going bespoke in these harsh times.

It is more likely that Mrs. O will get a makeover. She'll probably get some coaching from "her people" who will have her meet stylists or retailers or designers who can dress her in the best light. Again, such introductions will be on the Q.T. because there is nothing gained by going Park Avenue.

Here's an interesting artilce on the Chicago store where Mrs. O shopped: http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/fa ... the_k.html

On the whole, what you see is what you will get.

[Frog in Suit]

With apologies in advance to our fellow poster FiS I have to stay that I am not at all surprised by Sarkozy's terrible appearance. My work brings me into contact with plenty of Frenchmen of the professional class and their sartorial standards are low. I find the cut and quality of their (French made) suits very poor.

Dear JRLT,

You will get no argument from me . I, for one, prefer to get my shirts on Jermyn Street and my suits on SR (Sackville Street, actually). I am sure one can find good tailors and shirtmakers in France (Charvet springs to mind, but there must be others); most men do not care or do not know any better, alas.

Our (male) politicians all seem to wear plain dark grey-blue suits, with pale blue shirts, with no personal touch to distinguish them. Perhaps they feel that blandness will win them votes. As far as I can tell, this seems true of politicians in most of Europe and North America. Sarko is short (I will concede that he is probably not to blame for that ) but he has no concept of elegance. He just likes to show off, as when he took his (expensive and flashy) wristwatch in a meeting and passed it around the table, boasting about its price....

It seems general: people feel they must conform and wear whatever their peers wear. Businessmen and politicians end up being poorly dressed. One would have to look to the arts, antiques, publishing, worlds, or to the independently wealthy, to find elegance,. It may not be a coincidence that I was told by Paul Munday (Meyer & Mortimer) that there are some antique dealers amongst their French clients. No names were revealed of course.

Frog in Suit

[Guest]

if a man is not stylish by 50, he may never become one. obama must be over 50 and wears suits every day of the week, i doubt he changes.
it's not him, he is a man of the people. he reminds me of Bush; same suits, white shirts and colored silky ties, always.

changing subject i was thought, the duke of Windsor renounced the throne because of his friendship with Hitler and some people in Germany, which was not a very good thing in England at that time. his marriage seem to be the public excuse they gave then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKuXW2fLkz4