Full-legged trousers

[alden]

Do high rise trousers work if the person is *not* wearing a jacket? I understand their usefulness in a suit (and I suppose paired with an odd jacket), but otherwise, I find high rising trousers to give a very awkward and imbalance silhouette..

A good wardrobe is a balanced one. If you were to peak into mine you would find brace trousers and those to be worn with a belt.

In the heat of summer if it is feasible not to wear a coat, the belt trousers cut with 1-2 cms less rise are helpful. My own are still quite high rise, even with a belt, to balance my short legs with my long torso.

The rest of the year or roughly eleven months of it, I am in either a suit, odd coat or jumper. The high rise trousers are not seen and the only reason I would be taking my coat off during the day would be for a chest x-ray.

Personally speaking I am a great fan of well cut trousers as they are as rare as hen's teeth even among dedicated bespoke customers because trouser making is a real art. I have made many patterns of trousers over the years and I guard them as most precious objects. Various muslin fittings and trousers cut and failed went into their making, and many hours with a good trouser expert, the kind of the Mola brothers or the Ambrosi family of Naples. Yes, some of the finest English cut brace trousers were actually made in the city by the bay.

So I am not afraid to take my coat off and let my high rises be seen. I'm just prudish.

Cheers

M Alden

[jb]

Matt,

I agree with you completely on the actual results of trousers that we see around us with great regularity. Fortunately, a properly cut trouser back can fit and hang correctly while being mated to pleats and a proper amount of fullness in the front.

Chris Despos said something that really hit home to me on Friday. Many times people look at customers in bespoke attire and say that they just look well dressed and "normal". For many people, the tailor had to do a lot of work to achieve that "normal" and if we saw them in even good RTW before bespoke tailoring we would realize how much magic the tailor has actually worked.

Cheers,
Joel

[Jovan the Un1337]

I'm a fan of the full cut trousers that Cary Grant (the actual one, not the OP) wore, especially in North by Northwest. They were always perfectly balanced. No offence if anyone wears them here, but the ones that are wide and straight all the way to the bottom look rather dorky to me.

[Costi]

...the ones that are wide and straight all the way to the bottom look rather dorky to me.

Absolutely. Trousers need to have line, i.e. shape the leg in a flattering manner. Here is another instance, this time cuffless suit trousres in heavy wool gabardine (besides chest X-rays, I also take my coat off for LL pictures ) :

[Jovan the Un1337]

That is wonderful. What size opening is that? 20 inches?

[shredder]

When the Neapolitan silhouette is very close to the body, it is more challenging to wear a fully cut trouser. However a more ample, drape version can take one. If you go back to the picture of the “idealized drape” you will find a neat drape coat matched with a trouser on the full side. The extreme is the full blown scarecrow drape and Oxford bags, but this is not what we are after at all.

It is possible for a jacket cut close to the body to work well with a fullly cut, cylindrical rather than conical, pair of trousers. The example that comes to mind is a button 2 show 3 DB with a well shaped waist and full skirt, leading down to a pair of trousers cut quite full with slightly higher turn-ups (perhaps 2 inches) and hems just touching the shoes without a break (braces required). Certainly not a look for everyone and would require a certain type of physique (it would probably look comical on me because of long torso and short legs). A bit dandyish. A bit spivvy. If, of course, you like that sort of thing.

[Costi]

[...] DB with a well shaped waist and full skirt, leading down to a pair of trousers cut quite full with slightly higher turn-ups (perhaps 2 inches) and hems just touching the shoes without a break (braces required).

Is this more or less what you mean?

[shredder]

Yes, more or less, other than the skirt where the illustration does not quite show the fullness that I was envisaging as well as the jacket appearing to be unvented. I did forget to mention the trilby, which the illustration does show

[uppercase]

Here's a photo of what I think of as beautiful trouser drape.

I'll add that to the Duke's photo below; he was well known as a stickler for how he expected a proper trouser to look.

It's interesting how these fuller cut trousers work beautifully with a trim fitting coat and actually make the wearer look more slim and elegant.

Trouser drape...the missing ingredient to an elegant silhouette and appearance?

[Jovan the Un1337]

Great examples, those.

[Costi]

Another example (in linen) I found in an old folder on my PC:

[ottovbvs]

Anybody here currently sport this look?

As Mr. Alden testifies, the full cut is very comfortable. I also prefer the look of draped cloth over my thighs (as opposed to cloth clinging to them in the low-rise, belted version). The legs have a slight taper, from the waist to the knee and on to the hem, without being too narrow down. The length is just above the shoe, with a very slight break (if any).
If you could pull off the look? - as your tailor said: "absolutely"! The only drawback is that, once you have worn a pair of trousers cut like this, you will never want to wear any of the old, low-rise, narrow leg trousers in your wardrobe...

Couldn't agree more. Pants are all about drape and how they sit on the shoe. These tubes with huge feet sticking out of the bottom look ridiculous particularly when the fabric is bunched as it rests on the shoe instead of having the slightest break. I'm 6' slimmish and like a width around the turnup of 18.5-19" with the actual turnup at 1.75-2" Some people are nervous about going for a 2" and above cuff but provided you are above 5' 10" in height it's fine. If you're one of the really lofty types I'd consider a 2.25 cuff. Never have cuffs less than 1.75".

[ottovbvs]

I must say that I am coming around to appreciate the appearance of a full cut tjrouser.

I recently bought a pair of RTW flannel trousers in about 12 ozs. with 4 reverse pleats in a full cut.

I've got to admit that they fit me better than any bespoke trousers that I have had made and only wish that my bespoke trousers looked half as good.

They approached the wonderful drape and line that I see in the old AA illustrations. I think that the combination of the heavier weight of the cloth, the 4 deep reverse pleats and full cut made the trousers look so good.

And the full cut was certainly more comfortable in the hips when sitting down, crossing the leg, standing up again, etc. than any narrow cut trouser.

Having said this, I don't know why a full cut trouser looks odd with a Neapolitan coat but it does; it seems that the Neapolitan cut demands a narrower and shorter length trouser leg.

Perhaps this is required to complete the 'Neapolitan' silhouette but it is curious that such a narrow, uncomfortable trouser is needed to accompany such a comfortable coat.

Your comment about RTW is so valid. I've bought MTM and Bespoke suits and the cut of the pants isn't in the same league as some I've bought off the peg. I reside in the US and consider the best cut off the peg pants to be at Paul Stuart. Their cut and drape is excellent.