the cost of bespoke

[ottovbvs]

I can remember paying 1200 pounds for my CB's 20 years ago when a bespoke suit on the row cost close to 2000 pounds.

The £ 2,000 you quote would have been Huntsman's price. As late as 1993, a suit from Tom Brown (on Princes Street, not on Savile Row itself, but part of the SR universe) cost about GBP 1,000. I am sure they were not the only SR house in that price range. Even today, Meyer & Mortimer's suits are (about) £ 2,200 for a two-piece and £ 2,600 for a three-piece.
Too often one hears reference to SR prices in general, without mentioning the fact that there is a range, based on overheads, whether or not the address is on Savile Row itself, fame, etc...I won't even mention the prices outside the West End, or outside London. A bit of preliminary research can yield sizeable savings, and no loss in quality, as far as I can tell.

All the prices I quote include VAT at 17.5 %. I wonder whether the recent rate reduction will be passed on to customers.

Frog in Suit

In the late eighties I was paying about 1800 pounds including vat, which was 15% then I think, for a suit from a big name row tailor. I haven't had a bespoke suit made for ten years or more, I have closets full of suits and can only be buried in one! I've had other odd stuff made bespoke but not on the row.

[Guest]

i wore my first bespoke suit when i was 5 years old, it was a brown corduroy, i still have a big picture of it, wearing a bow tie.
now if i have a son, he won't be able to visit the tailor until he is the president of some company.

[koolhistorian]

Frankly, I am more optimistic, I think that with the changes in the world economy, artisan work will become again a "respectable" profession - look at what happened with the "arts of the table": chefs like Anthony Bourdain or Jaimie Oliver becoming not only media, but society personalities,
What I blame is our "more is better" philosophy - bigger and newer car, bigger house, larger wardrobes despite the quality. With the readjustments in the Western world economies that will be made by the ongoing crisis we will go back to the philosophy of our (grand) parents - "best is better". In the "golden age", aside very rich people, the normal way was one suit per year (either summer or winter) and a pair of good shoes! If you go outside the very top, and seeing from an already infamous post, going to the very top is not a guaranteed success, the spending is comparable to the spending on china - made RTW on a decent brand. I see people like Des Merrion offering MTM (or petite mesure. love the french ) which is a good sign - there are consumers ready to go on quality, but with some less money. With a wider base of consumers there is also a market for, as it was 50 years ago!
Hopefully!

[ottovbvs]

Frankly, I am more optimistic, I think that with the changes in the world economy, artisan work will become again a "respectable" profession - look at what happened with the "arts of the table": chefs like Anthony Bourdain or Jaimie Oliver becoming not only media, but society personalities,
What I blame is our "more is better" philosophy - bigger and newer car, bigger house, larger wardrobes despite the quality. With the readjustments in the Western world economies that will be made by the ongoing crisis we will go back to the philosophy of our (grand) parents - "best is better". In the "golden age", aside very rich people, the normal way was one suit per year (either summer or winter) and a pair of good shoes! If you go outside the very top, and seeing from an already infamous post, going to the very top is not a guaranteed success, the spending is comparable to the spending on china - made RTW on a decent brand. I see people like Des Merrion offering MTM (or petite mesure. love the french ) which is a good sign - there are consumers ready to go on quality, but with some less money. With a wider base of consumers there is also a market for, as it was 50 years ago!

This is an interesting viewpoint. You may be right and we're heading into a less is more environment. Do we really need four tv sets and mountains of cheap junk clothing. I do think you are missing one factor and that's the vicarious pleasure one gets from buying something new and wearing it for the first time. I have enough ties to circle the globe but still buy the odd one or occasionally one sees an unusual garment which takes your fancy. After all there is an element of whimsy in clothes.
Hopefully!

[koolhistorian]

This is an interesting viewpoint. You may be right and we're heading into a less is more environment. Do we really need four tv sets and mountains of cheap junk clothing. I do think you are missing one factor and that's the vicarious pleasure one gets from buying something new and wearing it for the first time. I have enough ties to circle the globe but still buy the odd one or occasionally one sees an unusual garment which takes your fancy. After all there is an element of whimsy in clothes.
Hopefully!

There are also small pleasures, the anti-boring "pills" like ties (I remember a friend that realised the fact that I had (almost 20 yrs ago) only two suits, but with a good regimen of ties and shirts, it looked that there were more! But 15 pairs of designer jeans is a lot!
Frankly, one could indulge more pleasures with the money spent on a bigger house, newer bigger car each 5 years, a walk-in closet full of crap! Travel, gastronomical experiences, cultural experiences. Once the base is set - that is the main problem - you are doing only "maintenance work".
Hopefully!

[ottovbvs]

This is an interesting viewpoint. You may be right and we're heading into a less is more environment. Do we really need four tv sets and mountains of cheap junk clothing. I do think you are missing one factor and that's the vicarious pleasure one gets from buying something new and wearing it for the first time. I have enough ties to circle the globe but still buy the odd one or occasionally one sees an unusual garment which takes your fancy. After all there is an element of whimsy in clothes.
Hopefully!

There are also small pleasures, the anti-boring "pills" like ties (I remember a friend that realised the fact that I had (almost 20 yrs ago) only two suits, but with a good regimen of ties and shirts, it looked that there were more! But 15 pairs of designer jeans is a lot!
Frankly, one could indulge more pleasures with the money spent on a bigger house, newer bigger car each 5 years, a walk-in closet full of crap! Travel, gastronomical experiences, cultural experiences. Once the base is set - that is the main problem - you are doing only "maintenance work".
Hopefully!

I'm definitely in the maintenance mode but as I said one does sometimes see something. There's a very good article out there that was written by a guy called George Francis Frazier called the art of wearing clothes. This contains a complete inventory of the wardrobe of the famous 20s/30s clothes horse Anthony Drexel Biddle, and it's actually surprisingly sparse. Only seven suits as I recall. I have rather more but am unwilliing to cull athough it gets done for me occasionally by moths. They did in a beautiful choc brown, cream chalk stripe, flannel a couple of years ago and I really miss that item.

[koolhistorian]

I'm definitely in the maintenance mode but as I said one does sometimes see something. There's a very good article out there that was written by a guy called George Francis Frazier called the art of wearing clothes. This contains a complete inventory of the wardrobe of the famous 20s/30s clothes horse Anthony Drexel Biddle, and it's actually surprisingly sparse. Only seven suits as I recall. I have rather more but am unwilliing to cull athough it gets done for me occasionally by moths. They did in a beautiful choc brown, cream chalk stripe, flannel a couple of years ago and I really miss that item.

Ah the dreaded enemy, the moth!
Yes it culled my wardrobe also, some time ago! I am not preaching a franciscan (or dominican) oath of poverty in the LL. I preach against sartorial gluttony - the vain quest for another "branded" shirt or suit that will add volume to the walk in closet in the new suburban house, along side with the new SUV. Drexel Biddle's example is good - in the sense that you do not need to have a huge wardrobe in order to be seen as "the best dressed man in the US (even there is a certain oxymoronic tension between the two terms), it needs some sense and simplicity! And if we were more to take that road, it can create a market for bespoke at an acceptable price!
Hopefully!

[Guest]

is there a definite correct price for a modern jacket or a suit?
for example a brooks brothers sports coat. which is not bad looking, but made on a factory, with cheap materials costs $600.
now that is a good price for an affordable jacket, but not really recommended. if we increase that price by 100% we still can't afford a custom made jacket. for a bespoke sports coat we have to pay somewhat like 600% more.
now an Armani suit, costs around $3000 this is clothes for successful people, actors, artists, and anyone else playing king of the hill. but we all know those suits do not cost that much, if i was successful and needed a boost of confidence i would buy one.
but i am normal (to a certain level,) and i need to buy the clothes my fathers and forefathers wore. they weren't king or nobleman not even rich, and they wore wool and cashmere suits, made by a tailor. and I'm sure they weren't saying to themselves i got the best, only compare to Rolls Royce,because it's bespoke, those were simply well fitted and well done suits.
i think the aristocracy at some point started using normal clothes, the modern suits. with the rise of democracy, they felt safer wearing those. a royal vestiment would be really expensive for that i would pay $6000 even $12000.
and some tailor complain of how much work they do, that is why the prices are high. but every worker, in different fields is out there working many hours. i can not find an excuse.

[alden]

I would like to bring some sort of closure to this thread as it seems the same slogans and themes are being repeated over and again.

There are two major factors that have influenced the pricing of bespoke

1. The overall rate of inflation; and
2. The law of supply and demand.


Pierre Corthay once told me that as late as the 1950s there were nearly 300 bespoke shoemakers in Paris, today there are maybe five. When our forefathers were buying clothes, RTW did not exist and the only way you had clothes made was by craftsmen. So there were plenty of them. Then the branded RTW clothes arrived and very early on it was considered chic to buy a brand rather than have clothes made. The trend away from bespoke and towards brands has dominated the last four decades.

In the last few years the demand for bespoke products has skyrocketed at the same time the bespoke workforce is dwindling towards extinction. Demand greatly exceeds supply. Prices have nearly doubled as a result. I am not at all surprised to see bespoke suits on offer at $6,000 and expect we will see the $10,000 barrier exploded in a few years.

The bespoke industry is looking more and more like a very finite and fragile reality, so if you have a hankering for it…buy now.

Michael Alden

[koolhistorian]

Frankly, I think that my suits are better made than what happened to our colleague with very reputable SR houses. The problem is to bring enough young tailors back on the market in order to create a competitive environment that will keep the prices at a "normal" level. What we have now in terms of bespoke in Western Europe is a niche in the luxury products market, so the price is accordingly.

[The Doctor]

For those whose currency is Dollars or Euros & are buying SR it’s definitely Christmas come early.

Edwin DeBoise

www.steed.co.uk

[alden]

Edwin

What does it feel like to be a bargain?

BTW your services are required in The Atelier where some renegade tailors are building nuclear attack proof silos in the guise of suits. Your advice is appreciated.

Cheers

Michael

[Guest]

that's incredible, i would feel robbed if i paid that much, well, when i heard of the $20000 gold thread Armani suit for the likes of Abramovich. i thought " what an idiot."from now on, I'll stick to classic menswear.
A real Roman tailor would never charge that much, i mean the old ones. i wonder what's fioravanti's excuse?
I'm sure there should be a correct price for a suit, otherwise whoever charges more seems to make the best suits. or whoever gives their clients the best reasons for those prices.

[ottovbvs]

To be honest I can't conceive of spending $10,000 to have a suit made. I suspect a lot of this stratospheric pricing has been created by demand from wealthy clients in the financial industry who just got their bonus. Well there are not going to be so many of those around in the future, in fact it's probable there's going to a collapse in demand for bespoke clothing so I'm not sure these high prices are going to stick.