Black brogue

[Costi]

An oxford with tooling is best worn with city suits that have a bit of texture like flannels or worsted herringbones. The step down in crispness and clean lines goes along with the step down in formality. Think of Windsor wearing his suede shoes with chalked flannels. For men who wear tweed or tweed-like suits to town, a brogued oxford is a good way to go as well.

Thank you for your enlightening response - I see my own thoughts did not stray too far from what you explained above: a shoe for grey tweeds, flannels and more roughly finished or country-inspired worsteds (herringbones) - therefore not a business shoe to wear with plain worsteds. A town shoe for leisure, perhaps where a brown town shoe would not accord with the colours of the suit and a plain or captoe black oxford would be too "formal" or business-like for the rest of the outfit.
Perhaps there are other kinds of tooling that can be applied to a black oxford to make it less formal, that are less resemblant of the full brogue with its wingtip, such as this:

[storeynicholas]

That's a fine looking shoe Costi - does it have blind welts?
NJS

[Costi]

Old RTW Bally, no welt. But it's the particular tooling on a black town oxford that I meant to illustrate.

[storeynicholas]

Still, it's a nice shape.
NJS

[Costi]

Thank you - yes, an elongated last.

[storeynicholas]

Thank you - yes, an elongated last.

Years ago, I saw some bespoke shoes shaped like this and they had blind welts - like a pump - to add to the stream-lined look.
NJS

[Sir Henry]

late to this topic, but.....

Black brogues are one of the nicest looking shoes known to man. l couldn't image how good black shell cordovan longwings must be.

Hmm, first I ever heard of anyone disliking brogues, let alone hating them. The first pair of bespoke shoes I commissioned John Lobb to make me were full brogue lace-ups in black box calf. Among other shoes ordered subsequently were several pairs of brogues in doeskin suede.
Be it brogue cap, semi-brogue, full brogue or even a two-toned spectator, a man without a good number of brogues in his wardrobe might as well pad around barefoot like Frodo.

JMB

Bravo old boy. Bravo!

[storeynicholas]

late to this topic, but.....

Black brogues are one of the nicest looking shoes known to man. l couldn't image how good black shell cordovan longwings must be.

Hmm, first I ever heard of anyone disliking brogues, let alone hating them. The first pair of bespoke shoes I commissioned John Lobb to make me were full brogue lace-ups in black box calf. Among other shoes ordered subsequently were several pairs of brogues in doeskin suede.
Be it brogue cap, semi-brogue, full brogue or even a two-toned spectator, a man without a good number of brogues in his wardrobe might as well pad around barefoot like Frodo.

JMB

And live in an underground dwelling?
NJS
Bravo old boy. Bravo!

[radicaldog]

A slight digression. What about oxfords with tooling but without extra layers of leather (excuse the imprecise terminology)? For example:

http://www.shoes.shoppingsection.co.uk/ ... gory_Code=

Do they have a place in classically attired man's wardrobe?

[marcelo]

A slight digression. What about oxfords with tooling but without extra layers of leather (excuse the imprecise terminology)? For example:

http://www.shoes.shoppingsection.co.uk/ ... gory_Code=

Do they have a place in classically attired man's wardrobe?

The model at issue is a „wholecut“. It works well with some discrete brogueing at the tip. A wholecut looks less formal than usual oxfords. But I have the impression that a black wholecut – regardless of brogueing – does not have much appeal. I would be glad to hear further comments on the aesthetics of wholecuts.

[radicaldog]

Thanks for the informative response, Marcelo.

My impression is that a wholecut is certainly less formal than a plain captoe oxford (or even a completely plain one, i.e. a blucher on an oxford last, if that makes sense), but somewhat more formal than a conventional tooled oxford (i.e. one with extra layers of leather). Would you (or anyone else) agree?

Also, it seems to me that wholecuts are somewhat more frivolous, in a way that's perhaps more Italian or French rather than British. In fact I think they feature quite prominently in Berluti's repertoire, if I'm not mistaken.

[marcelo]

One thing interesting I have once read about wholecuts is that they are a cordwainer’s nightmare: since the shoe is cut out of a single piece of leather, a lot of material is wasted if something goes wrong during the cutting process. Maybe it is something like a cutter driving his shear on the wrong side of an expensive piece of cloth.

[NCW]

With formal shoes (patent) a wholecut is in fact more formal, a cap being a 'business' or 'workday' feature, which is more formal than countrified settings, but less than formalwear.

[Costi]

I think black and wholecut is not such a terrible association, since the slim, simple line works well with the dark, sober colour.

They are not really formal shoes, simple though they are, and not quite business shoes, either. Therefore I wear them mostly during my leisure time, whenever an evening black shoe is required.
My shoemaker tells me that they are indeed relatively more difficult to cut and make. He also tells me that he can do a "true" wholecut (i.e. completely seamless, unlike the usual wholecut which has a seam at the heel or offset inwards), but it takes a special quality of leather which lends itself to the amount of shaping required. I hope he or I can find that leather one day...

[Costi]

A slight digression. What about oxfords with tooling but without extra layers of leather (excuse the imprecise terminology)? For example:

http://www.shoes.shoppingsection.co.uk/ ... gory_Code=

Do they have a place in classically attired man's wardrobe?

Oxfords with a small amount of tooling, such as a toe medallion, certainly have a place in my wardrobe: