New Jantzen Shirt--Comments Please

[livescribe]

Dear all,

I asked Jantzen to copy a bespoke shirt from another tailor. I am relatively happy with the results and am thinking of placing a fairly large order for additional shirts, but would very much appreciate your thoughts before I do.

Regards,
L.S.

[RWS]

It's difficult (at least, it's difficult for me; there are other Loungers with much more practiced eyes) to determine when the shirt isn't buttoned at the collar and is rumpled, but it does appear quite too wide at the shoulders -- or, rather, much wider than I'd prefer to wear my own shirts. All that matters, though, is that you are pleased.

[livescribe]

RWS-

Thanks for your comment. As a relative novice, I am not hard to please. I am hoping that in spite of the flaws in my photos, others with more experience can provide some perspective on the cut of the shirt.

Regards,
L.S.

[andreyb]

RWS is right, shoulders are definitely too wide.

Also, a photo with top button closed might help to assess collar's size.

Andrey

[DonB]

Dear all,

I asked Jantzen to copy a bespoke shirt from another tailor. I am relatively happy with the results and am thinking of placing a fairly large order for additional shirts, but would very much appreciate your thoughts before I do.

Regards,
L.S.

pictures
]

I think both sleeves are a tad longish as well.

[radicaldog]

For what it's worth, I would have tighter cuffs (which would then also sit a little higher).

[couch]

I agree with the previous comments, which also prompt me to ask whether the shirt has been laundered a couple of times prior to being photographed. If not, there may be some shrinkage allowance that has not been fully taken up yet.

Even if there's more shrinkage to come, I think the shoulders will still need to come in to take out some excess cloth crumpling at the blades and, to a lesser extent at the outside of the chest.

A photo with the shirt buttoned (with and without tie) would help us judge whether the back collar height, front band height, and collar point length and angle are suitable.

In my experience, Ricky is not usually over-generous on sleeve length, so I'd suggest you move the button to tighten the cuff slightly, and then try the shirt on with a suit coat and bend your elbows 90 degrees. You may actually have about the right sleeve length to allow the shirt cuff not to be pulled inside the jacket. If it stays put but you feel excess play in the sleeve, then it may be a bit long.

Your posture suggests a slightly forward placement of the neck opening, and from what I can see it looks as though that has been accomplished. If in the side view your arm position is typical (that is, you're not holding your arms back unnaturally) then you might have the sleeve rotated forward at the shoulder, or have the rear of the sleeve head brought down a bit. It would probably be safer to asses this after the shoulder width is dialed in, however.

Partly because your trousers are sitting at your hips, it's hard to see how closely the shirt follows your body through the waist. This is a matter of preference, but I suspect I'd want a little more suppression at the natural waist if it were mine. It's difficult to say because of the extra cloth at the blades and chest, but it looks like the armholes may be small / high enough to accommodate a well-tailored coat; another angle might help us evaluate that better.

[Sator]

All I can say is: don't do it.

I can recognise some of the dodgy Chinese mill's knock-offs of the European mill's designs on their website. My shirtmaker, Charles Nakhle here in Sydney, was offered them for a 'special' price. He tried them but has stopped ordering them, as they just don't perform well. They are simply not as long lasting as the decent stuff. It is really not much better form than buying fake designer goods if you ask me. It's pretty bad form if you ask me. There is a reason why their shirts are dirt cheap: you get what you pay for.

[Costi]

All I can say is: don't do it.

The question is, livescribe: does the original bespoke shirt which they copied look the same as this one?

[edhayes]

I am with sator.
It also seems to me that the shirt is very big, shoulders, chest, waist-

[gmludlow]

RWS-

Thanks for your comment. As a relative novice, I am not hard to please. I am hoping that in spite of the flaws in my photos, others with more experience can provide some perspective on the cut of the shirt.

Regards,
L.S.

Shoulders too wide and sleeves too long as others have said. Do they actually cut a pattern for you or is this just Made to Measure?

[a tailor]

on your next order. the shoulders should be narrower 1" on each side. the waist smaller about 2" each side. the cuffs tighter enough to keep from dropping past the base of the thumb. also you have a right low shoulder.

[couch]

All I can say is: don't do it.

I can recognise some of the dodgy Chinese mill's knock-offs of the European mill's designs on their website. My shirtmaker, Charles Nakhle here in Sydney, was offered them for a 'special' price. He tried them but has stopped ordering them, as they just don't perform well. They are simply not as long lasting as the decent stuff. It is really not much better form than buying fake designer goods if you ask me. It's pretty bad form if you ask me. There is a reason why their shirts are dirt cheap: you get what you pay for.

Sator, last time I looked they identified Japanese and Italian cottons, most 2-ply. Are you saying that some or all of the ones labeled as Italian are in fact Chinese knock-offs? I wouldn't expect Bonfanti or even Thomas Mason Silver Line at Jantzen prices, but I assumed the cloths were honestly labeled, and equivalent at least to a basic department-store shirting. Competitive labor costs and near-zero marketing and distribution costs could plausibly account for most of the price advantage. The one cloth I ordered from them, a very fine plain white twill, was a bit stiffish but has held up fairly well.

[Mark Seitelman]

What does Jantzen charge? I seem to recal it was $40 a shirt.

I have always found the cult of Jantzen amusing.

According to one of its regular customers on another forum, with the low price it is a hit and miss proposition. You place an order, and if it arrives in 3 or 4 months, then that's great. However, if it never delivers (and doesn't charge your card), then that's OK too. This fellow just places an order and waits to be surprised.

At that price level the fabrics are either end bolts, knock-offs, seconds, or whatever. There is always the potential for a few nuggets of gold mixed-in with the inventory. I would think that there would be a failure rate of about 1 out of every 4 or 3 ordered based on the quality of the cloth. However, as some loyalists argue, due to the low prices you are still ahead.

Good luck.