Costumes

[Guest]

How can we wear traditional clothes without looking like impersonators of the figurines in 1930's AA? Are classically-clad young men condemned to look like they're bound for a costume party? If not, is the devil in the details? But which details?

[Guest]

How can we wear traditional clothes without looking like impersonators of the figurines in 1930's AA? Are classically-clad young men condemned to look like they're bound for a costume party? If not, is the devil in the details? But which details?

Hats, gloves, canes and umbrellas are giveaway details here - especially the homburg, and the coke/bowler/derby hats (not so much the snap-brim trilbys and fedoras); the yellow chamois gloves and canes and sticks (not quite so much umbrellas). Day bow ties and vests as well as frock top coats contribute to this retrospective air too. Apart from that, the suit and shoe patterns have changed little. Four in hand day ties are much the same. Shirts and ties can be used to dispel a studied retro air and, of course, it all very much depends on how it is carried off - self-consciously or with devil-may-care insouciance. Naturally, middle-aged men can, generally, carry off more of the 1930s detail more easily than younger men - especially when most of the younger crowd are a very far cry from the figurines d'antan.
NJS

[Guest]

How can we wear traditional clothes without looking like impersonators of the figurines in 1930's AA? Are classically-clad young men condemned to look like they're bound for a costume party? If not, is the devil in the details? But which details?

Hats, gloves, canes and umbrellas are giveaway details here - especially the silk hat, the homburg, and the coke/bowler/derby hats (not so much the snap-brim trilbys and fedoras); the yellow chamois gloves and canes and sticks (not quite so much umbrellas). Day bow ties, buttonhole flowers and vests (especially with a DB suit), as well as frock top coats contribute to this retrospective air too. Apart from that, the suit and shoe patterns have changed little. Four in hand day ties are much the same. Shirts and ties can be used to dispel a studied retro air and, of course, it all very much depends on how it is carried off - self-consciously - or with devil-may-care insouciance. Naturally, middle-aged men can, generally, carry off more of the 1930s detail more easily than younger men - especially when most of the younger crowd are a very far cry from the figurines d'antan.
NJS

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply. I suppose all of that holds true in a business environment, where even men in their twenties are expected to wear suits. But what about a young man in an informal working environment (such as academia) or during his free time? Wouldn't he inevitably look pretty affected in (say) a brown prince of Wales suit, regardless of devil-may-care panache?

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply. I suppose all of that holds true in a business environment, where even men in their twenties are expected to wear suits. But what about a young man in an informal working environment (such as academia) or during his free time? Wouldn't he inevitably look pretty affected in (say) a brown prince of Wales suit, regardless of devil-may-care panache?

Sorry - my second (amended) post was the intended post. I guess, on the specific question of an academic setting, it all depends on such matters as whether:
1. you are a student or a lecturer;
2. to some extent, how your colleagues dress;
3. your age;
4. also (and this is only ascertained by a process of induction), whether people have come to expect a certain dress sense from you.

My experience of academia is that both lecturers and students vary widely in their clothes - some lecturers turn up in dark suits;some in sports' or odd jackets and other or odd trousers and some might even turn up in a jumper - especially for tutorials - their excuse/reason for any wrinkles and crumples being the lofty one - that it isn't a fashion parade. But isn't the wonder of such an environment the freedom that many deeply thinking people allow each other in such matters?
NJS

[Guest]

I'm a lecturer (well, a research fellow who does a bit of lecturing as well) in the social sciences. The University is in the UK, and it is hardly prestigious. People think of me as generally well dressed, if not overdressed -- perhaps I get away with it a bit because I'm Italian. Often I get asked why I'm wearing a tie (!). My colleagues, including senior professors, dress very informally (jeans and sweaters are more or less the norm). As for the point regarding academia's alleged freedom from dress codes, I should say that it is now degenerating into a sloppy dress code. If you are well dressed you must either be stupid, or have too much money (something academics are--perhaps understandably--very resentful of), or both. I recall that a young lecturer at my (rather prestigious) PhD-granting institution was regularly ridiculed (mostly behind his back) for wearing tweed suits and odd sportscoats with ties. There is still more freedom in academia than in most work environments (nobody would tell you that you can't wear this or that), but still, unfortunately conformism seems to creep in everywhere.

[Guest]

The irony in this is quite striking - not so long ago, the conformists were those who made an effort and would certainly, as lecturers, have worn a tie - some lecturers in my day (generally, actually, the junior ones), even wore a gown for lectures. Maybe you like to wear a coat and tie and why should you not? So long as you do not believe that you appear OTT and absurd, no one else should. Actually, you put me in mind of one of my oldest friends from University days (which began 30 years ago this month), and when, in freshers' week, we were in a group at some function, chatting, he cut in to me with the question/observation: what do you do on formal occasions? Actually, I was just in a grey suit and dark tie but most people were not. Anyhow, I expect that he wears a grey or blue suit most days now, in central London, and I do not, here in the Sleepy Hollow - I should certainly be ridiculed if I did (it's a fishing village), so I wear a decent shirt and slacks and shoes or sandals. But if we go to Rio, I wear a suit - just because I think that I should a tribute to the place. Someone once said to me: Life is full of compromises - so don't compromise. I suppose that he meant , avoid compromise if you can and, after all, why should you be compromised by scruffy people? Maybe, just keep it neat and under-stated - no paisley-patterned Thomas Lipton ties, for example - a restrained tie. All of us are just passing guests in this world - no day is less important than any other - and it would seem harsh indeed if we have to buckle under, to indirect pressure, to pander to the lowest common denominator, for fear of cheap ridicule. For sure, this age belongs to the common man - and good for them - there are so many of them - but I do not choose to walk around in their age in camouflage: T shirt and jeans and sneakers - my spirit rebelling at the imposition of values that I do not espouse. Moreover, the more people that feel as we do, the more chance is there of saving some daily grace in custom and the little everyday ceremonies of action that mark us out from other creatures.
NJS.

[Guest]

I have the fortune to attend a certain ancient college where formalwear is not uncommon. Indeed, I was discussing last night whether or not bands ought to be required for those in statu pupillari with black tie. I have observed boaters, full tweed suits, black coat lounge, and the complex system of lacing on gowns and hood colours, distinct for each degree and status. I know of several undergraduates even with white tie (useful unfortunately only once or twice a year). On the other hand, while eccentricity is expected (particularly in my faculty), it is not usually exhibited in dress deviating in the slightest from the national average.

It was only in 1970 that the wearing of gowns to lectures and supervisions ceased to be required (and enforced).

NJS comments that no day is more important than another; I may be unusual, but would not be alone to dress up for flag days, let alone scarlet or red letter days. I do however strongly agree that what people expect from you specifically plays a large part in their acceptance of you. I chanced to omit a tie just once this term, but was mocked a couple of times. I receive no comment most days, and never regarding, for example, my tie wearing.

[Guest]

NCW

[Guest]

i just meant that everday deserves respect (!) and that seldom does a day deserve a trackie and trainers - all day. Of course, there are special occasions that need special dress.
NJS

[Guest]

How can we wear traditional clothes without looking like impersonators of the figurines in 1930's AA? Are classically-clad young men condemned to look like they're bound for a costume party? If not, is the devil in the details? But which details?

As many have mentioned, I feel attitude is the most important factor. Yes, one probably can go too far in duplicating exact details, but one difference is that one isn't trying to exactly resemble a person, but only to use that decade's style. Owning a period "outfit" is one thing, using that period's principles of dress is another. As for any reference to age, I think that is much less a factor of costume than of attitude. Most remarks about older men being able to "pull off" this article of clothing or that style can probably be traced to their attitude and not letting themselves be bothered about it. (Apologies to any older men who feel their age gives special sartorial privileges.)

pbc

[Guest]

As a young man in my early 30s, I also worry about whether one is seen as clothed in costume, instead of elegance. For my part, I took guidance from The Suit, specifically its chapters regarding advice to young men, and the scattered comments on dandies.

As far as certain garments go, I wear a hat every day, either a trilby or a flat cap, and I don't think I come across as affected. I think attitude is key--wear it like you own it. And bask in the compliments!

I think one key is to incorporate the modern into your wardrobe. For example, this last weekend I came across pictures of a man about my age, who was dressed almost head-to-toe in vintage garments. While they were tailored to fit him quite well, the overall effect was of "costume" to my eyes. But one does see men dressed in more modern togs who pull it off completely.

The comment above by pbc about using the principles, and not just draping oneself in old cloth is very apt. It's the difference between creating a new and personal style and aping a dead art form. Working at an art college, I hear professors every day expounding on this distinction.


Tucker