Rubinacci shirts

[Bishop of Briggs]

Many thanks to Terry Teplitz for that valuable information, especially as he has posted on his experiences with artisans in Italy.

[Frog in Suit]

IIRC, your tailor is in Sackville Street. So why go to N&L when you can visit Sean down the street at Fallan & Harvey?

You are correct.
Meyer & Mortimer/Jones Chalk & Dawson (6 Sackville Street) are next door to Sean O'Flynn's (within Fallan & Harvey).

I can think of two reasons: one, I have been going to New & Lingwood for a very long time, starting at their Eton shop ca. 1984, and they (Mr. Blackwell being in charge of bespoke shirts these days) have always been most pleasant and accomodating; two, I would feel awkward walking into a tailor's shop (Fallan & Harvey), when I have absolutely no intention of changing from Meyer & Mortimer.

Should N & L change too much, I may of course reconsider.

Frog in Suit

PS: This may also be self-preservation. If I changed, I would have to order at least four shirts, I believe. I most emphatically do not need any more shirts....

[Scot]

I have had five shirts made by Sean recently. I have to say that when I have visited him at Fallan and Harvey he as usually been the only person in the shop. No sign of a tailor and the only other customers have been his.

He is very pleasant and clearly knowledgeable. His prices are reasonable and he will make you one shirt if that is what you wish. I am mostly very happy with the shirts. They fit very well, although he seems to use no pleats in the back. In my case, in fact, he has used darts.

Does anyone else have a problem with shirt collars. Mine from O'Flynn fit very nicely and I like the shape but they seem to be quite flimsy and therefore can look almost corrugated (if you know what I mean). How can this be avoided? Is it down to the cutting or can the collar be made stiffer? I will need to discuss this when I order my next batch but members expertise would be appreciated.

[pvpatty]

Does anyone else have a problem with shirt collars. Mine from O'Flynn fit very nicely and I like the shape but they seem to be quite flimsy and therefore can look almost corrugated (if you know what I mean). How can this be avoided? Is it down to the cutting or can the collar be made stiffer? I will need to discuss this when I order my next batch but members expertise would be appreciated.

I am no expert, but I believe that a stiffer inner piece can be inserted when the collar is made up. Either that or a lot of starch!

[Frog in Suit]

Does anyone else have a problem with shirt collars. Mine from O'Flynn fit very nicely and I like the shape but they seem to be quite flimsy and therefore can look almost corrugated (if you know what I mean). How can this be avoided? Is it down to the cutting or can the collar be made stiffer? I will need to discuss this when I order my next batch but members expertise would be appreciated.

I am no expert, but I believe that a stiffer inner piece can be inserted when the collar is made up. Either that or a lot of starch!

I order neckband tunic shirts from N & L with two detachable collars, with French (turn back) cuffs. The collars (I only picked up my latest order on Tuesday) feel substantial (they are not "stiff" collars). They fit perfectly after two washes. They appear to contain some light interlining (not fusing) but I am no expert.

I have never questioned the overall fit or the shape of the collar, as long as the main features (above) are present and the shirt is comfortable and looks good. Why would one need back pleats on a well-fitting shirt?

Frog in Suit

[Scot]

[quote="Why would one need back pleats on a well-fitting shirt?

Frog in Suit[/quote]

Exactly his argument, and I am satisfied with the results.

[Manself]

Having started this thread with a question about Rubinacci I can now report that I was put off trying their shirts by the price (£300-£350). I did ask if there was an obvious reason they cost twice the going rate for a shirt made in London and was given no explanation at all. Their pricing seems particularly odd to me because their suits are less than Savile Row (they quote about £2,700) but their shirts are twice Savile Row.

Anyway, I ended up ordering two shirts from Darren Tieman at Dege (Robert Whittaker is away). I've been happy with Dege's shirts in the past, but put off by the time it takes for them to be ready - Robert is palpably overworked.

Mansel

[Frog in Suit]

Having started this thread with a question about Rubinacci I can now report that I was put off trying their shirts by the price (£300-£350). I did ask if there was an obvious reason they cost twice the going rate for a shirt made in London and was given no explanation at all. Their pricing seems particularly odd to me because their suits are less than Savile Row (they quote about £2,700) but their shirts are twice Savile Row.

Anyway, I ended up ordering two shirts from Darren Tieman at Dege (Robert Whittaker is away). I've been happy with Dege's shirts in the past, but put off by the time it takes for them to be ready - Robert is palpably overworked.

Mansel

The price you mention for a shirt is certainly very high. N & L bespoke is less than £ 200 a shirt. As to SR suits, they can be had for less. Mine cost me about £ 2,200 for a two-piece, £ 2.600 for a three-piece.

Frog in Suit

[Bishop of Briggs]

Having started this thread with a question about Rubinacci I can now report that I was put off trying their shirts by the price (£300-£350). I did ask if there was an obvious reason they cost twice the going rate for a shirt made in London and was given no explanation at all. Their pricing seems particularly odd to me because their suits are less than Savile Row (they quote about £2,700) but their shirts are twice Savile Row.

Anyway, I ended up ordering two shirts from Darren Tieman at Dege (Robert Whittaker is away). I've been happy with Dege's shirts in the past, but put off by the time it takes for them to be ready - Robert is palpably overworked.

Mansel

The price you mention for a shirt is certainly very high. N & L bespoke is less than £ 200 a shirt. As to SR suits, they can be had for less. Mine cost me about £ 2,200 for a two-piece, £ 2.600 for a three-piece.

Frog in Suit

I believe that Malcolm Plews at Welsh & Jeffries charges similar prices. Prices are even lower if you are willing to go off Row to an ex-Row cutter, e.g. the A&S alumni or John Davies of Tobias Davies.

[tteplitzmd]

Having started this thread with a question about Rubinacci I can now report that I was put off trying their shirts by the price (£300-£350). I did ask if there was an obvious reason they cost twice the going rate for a shirt made in London and was given no explanation at all. Their pricing seems particularly odd to me because their suits are less than Savile Row (they quote about £2,700) but their shirts are twice Savile Row.



Mansel

As I have written elsewhere, you have to assume some of the Rubinacci pricing is related to their real estate overhead and promotional costs. Of course my impression from 3 visits to the Mount Street "boutique" is that no one there is competent to take a bespoke shirt order anyway. So, their self flattering pricing reminds me of the (Samuel Johnson) quote: "It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

[mafoofan]

^^^ One should keep in mind that Tteplitz has some sort of a history with Rubinacci that leads him to frequently disparage the firm for dubious reasons.

Rubinacci shirts and suits are expensive. But the suit prices, from my understanding, are not outside the normal range for Savile Row; after all, Rubinacci prices include VAT while many of the Savile Row firms price their goods exclusive of it. The VAT accounts for 15-20 percent of the reported price.

The shirts are very different from the standard Jermyn Street shirt. As far as I know, no major English shirtmaker uses any handsewing. At the very least, the shoulders of a Rubinacci shirt are hand-stitched. And, to be fair, Rubinacci shirts do not have as much handsewing as shirts made by many of the well-known Neapolitan shirtmakers. For guidance, Anna Matuozzo (who uses extensive handsewing) charges much more than Rubinacci. Still, as a Neapolitan rather than English shirt, a shirt by Rubinacci is a completely different animal. Note: I do not get my shirts from Rubinacci.

While I imagine there is no subsitute for making it to Naples, I can't say what the service is like at Rubinacci's London location since I've never been there.

I'm probably going to regret getting into this, but the overhead argument is ridiculous. All the Savile Row firms pay high overhead, of course. Rubinacci may have more international locations than many, but the Savile Row firms typically make much more frequent visits to the U.S. and other regions. In my opinion, the final price of the product and its relative quality should be indicative in and of itself of the value you're getting.

Putting my money where my mouth is:

[Bishop of Briggs]

My understanding that hand-sewing in Neapolitan shirts enables the maker to add features such as shirring - but that does not make it a better shirt, just different in style. Perhaps someone can comment on whether more hand-sewing would increase the quality of a typical Jermyn Street style shirt.

[mafoofan]

My understanding that hand-sewing in Neapolitan shirts enables the maker to add features such as shirring - but that does not make it a better shirt, just different in style. Perhaps someone can comment on whether more hand-sewing would increase the quality of a typical Jermyn Street style shirt.

Oh, I didn't mean to contend that it makes for a 'better' shirt. There are really two claims I'm making: (weak) the hand-stitching makes for an appreciably different shirt, and (strong) hand-stitching is more labor intensive, adding to cost. I don't know how true the latter is, but I'm pretty confident about the former.

I imagine lots of handsewing wouldn't make sense in the context of a traditional Jermyn Street shirt.

[Bishop of Briggs]

My understanding that hand-sewing in Neapolitan shirts enables the maker to add features such as shirring - but that does not make it a better shirt, just different in style. Perhaps someone can comment on whether more hand-sewing would increase the quality of a typical Jermyn Street style shirt.

Oh, I didn't mean to contend that it makes for a 'better' shirt. There are really two claims I'm making: (weak) the hand-stitching makes for an appreciably different shirt, and (strong) hand-stitching is more labor intensive, adding to cost. I don't know how true the latter is, but I'm pretty confident about the former.

I imagine lots of handsewing wouldn't make sense in the context of a traditional Jermyn Street shirt.

Agreed. Hand sewing is more labour intensive and will increase the cost of making the shirt and the price. But how is a Neapolitan shirt different because it has more hand sewing? I can think of shirring on the back (no pleats or darts) and at the sleevehead. I would guess that sewing can strengthen button holes but a London customer could ask for that.

[Frog in Suit]

The price you mention for a shirt is certainly very high. N & L bespoke is less than £ 200 a shirt. As to SR suits, they can be had for less. Mine cost me about £ 2,200 for a two-piece, £ 2.600 for a three-piece.

Frog in Suit

The prices I quoted above are inclusive of VAT (at the exact UK rate of 17.5 %). I have no experience of other shirtmakers or tailors beyond the ones whose names I mention. I will not comment on any makers except from direct personal experience.

Frog in Suit