The city with the best climate best and best facilities

[storeynicholas]

The question is fairly obvious I hope. Since the LL has an international membership (and I expect a well-travelled one too), I wonder which city pips the rest for: climate and all the things that we want, on a daily basis, as London Loungers - environment, housing, food, drink, entertainment. Obviously, there are cities which each have a clear edge for certain things (or are in a very small group for them) and the question takes it as a given that several London Loungers will travel to purchase certain things - or have them brought. I ask the question because the weather controls our activities, our way of life - even our moods - and, in certain parts of the world, recently, the weather has been attrocious - from the Caribbean to Cornwall.
NJS[/i]

[marcelo]

I love to spend a day in Zurich; except for it sadly reminds me of the REAL worth of my painstakingly obtained earning. The city offers a range of nice cafés, beautiful shops, and quite elegantly dressed persons. But Rio de Janeiro is still the city I most love.

[manuduenas]

Rome - they have many tailors, shops, some (not a lot) good hotels, I like the climate. There are a lot of well-dressed people, at least in the vatican:



manuduenas

[storeynicholas]

The Papal Guard certainly give a whole new meaning to knickerbocker glory!
NJS

[Frog in Suit]

An interesting and difficult question...

I can only speak of parts of Western Europe and parts of the USA.

In no order of preference:

Paris: my home town, architecture and layout, museums etc..., food, public transport and "walkability" but it is grey and dismal a lot of the year. Would i ever want to live anywhere else?

London: museums and culture, architecture (but some disasters as well). food (long gone are the days when one could mock British food, even if Indian is one of the best aspects of the current scene), very vital and international/open to the world, climate pretty much as Paris, but very expensive and difficult, because of its size, to get around.

Switzerland: Basel, Bern, Zürich: Wonderful museums (unpretentious and welcoming, as well), some great architecture (Basel's old town, Bern), exceedingly livable (superb public transport, walkable), very international (esp. Basel and Zürich) excellent food, can be cold in winter but I do not mind that.

Munich: Culture (museums, music, etc, etc...) great architecture (often rebuilt since the war), very livable (parks, public transport, walkable), very good food (and the beer, ah, the beer!!), climate: i do not mind the different seasons, au contraire. Unfortunately, I do not speak German (thinking of learning, though...)

Naples: noisy, chaotic, but captivating (several thousand years of history....), architecture (the baroque!), museums, opera, food (you cannot be said to have tasted pizza if you have not been to Naples, and there is a lot more....). I do not speak Iltalian but sort of fake it and people are very nice about it.

Sevilla: All the culture and history (a crossroad between the Arab and the European worlds, great baroque as well), much cleaned up and modernized since the World Fair (was that 1992?), very livable from what I have seen, walkable, probably too hot for me in summer but heavenly in spring, good food. I once took a Spanish course and sort of fake it. People are nice and respond.

North America: Boston culture and museums, livable (walkable because inner city is small, plus decent public transport), many of the XVIIIth and XIXth buildings still there, nice climate if you like snow in winter, easy to get to Northen New England or the Maine coast.

The above based on my limited experience, of course.

Frog in Suit

PS: Edinburgh: a new (re)discovery: Gorgeous architecture and history, seems highly livable and civilized, walkable.I cannot wait to go back....

[storeynicholas]

FiS - you don't seem to mind the cold, that's for sure! Especially, Edinburgh - makes me shiver to think of the temperature there at this time of year - but it is a fine city with a very light atmosphere and the sky is often more steel grey than leaden right up there. Interesting to read what you say about the European cities - and you are, I suspect, unlikely to leave Paris as a base. I know what you say about London is true - especially the food relatively recently but it would be the great press of people which I would find difficult - even before we left, the crowds became difficult to cope with. What about Athens? I suppose that there is not as much there in terms of modern amenities as Paris, London, Rome but it has a wonderful climate and openness and views - and is near enough to the rest of Europe.
NJS

[manuduenas]

Athens is a beautiful city!! They have pretty good transportation, a very nice downtown and, of course a lot of interesting history! While staying there we took the metro all the way to the end, where we reached a wonderful side of the town "kifisias", gardens, parks, very maritime - beautiful!

What about Vienna? wonderful atmosphere, nice pedestrian zone, cafés, museums, concerts, stores, tailors - especially after having read Sator's insightful review.

manuduenas

[storeynicholas]

Yes Vienna - and the Wiener Phiharmoniker concert on New Year's Day at the Musikverein presents a great opportunity for Loungers in their morning coats! I always listen to it and, one day, I hope to go. I like Rio de Janeiro, despite all the publicity about violence - although this still affects, in some measure, the degree to which we have explored it fully - but it is indeed a Marvellous City. Others may well be in contention for the most beautifully situated city but, so far, RdeJ has my vote and the climate is just about ideal, even if the summer can bring Mosquito-transferred Dengue fever. I feel, coming in to land, in something of the way I do when crossing the Tamar Bridge - an intense pleasure. However, I can't give a very full picture because that will have to await further exploration with Marcelo and our respective Good Ladies. Moreover, Cariocas, just like Athenians, are happy people and you should never be surprised to come upon them spontaneously dancing or singing. Evenings in Athens are magical - walk everywhere - no danger that we sensed, up around winding little streets with restaurants in courtyards and the sound of violins - and again a warm climate. I have awoken in Europe and seen my breath in the air from my bed - I could never easily contemplate experiencing that again.
NJS

[Bishop of Briggs]

I endorse the suggestions above but would add Florence, Milan and Venice to the list. Edinburgh, sartorially, is a desert unless one is seeking to buy Highland dress. London, apart from Savile Row and St. James's, has suffered an alarming cultural decline.

[sartorius]

Climate and facilities: a difficult combination to marry.

For the best climate, I would unhesitatingly say Noosa, in Queensland, Australia. It is hot pretty much all year and with just enough humidity to retain warmth in the evening, without being overbearing. It can be wet, but with rain comes riotously verdant flora and fauna. A truly wonderful location, if lacking facilities-wise (and, being 2 hours drive north of Brisabane, hardly the most accessible).

For facilities I would unhesitatingly say London. It's sartorial pre-eminence speaks for itself, but it also offers international cuisine, world beating art and history (witness the recent exhibitions at the British Museum) and of course the London Season which (despite whatever our capricious climate may throw at us) offers something for almost everyone.

[storeynicholas]

Sartorius - Yes, I guess that London is hard to beat for shopping and the breadth of entertainment but, as you say, it is very difficult to find climate and facilities all at once - maybe, Madrid strikes a balance. London museums and galleries do host fabulous exhibitions and all the great orchestras and singers go there too and the choice of food is extraordinary. We've had Naples and Florence - anywhere else - or is it a Utopian dream to have it all together and at once?
NJS

[Frog in Suit]

As I get older -- I hate flying -- I find myself more and more attracted to the idea of only going to places I can reach by train. Of course, that would include most, if not all, of Western Europe; one could not hope to see all of it in a lifetime, which gives me something to look forward to...

It is not that I do not respect other cultures; I only feel that Europe (I would include non-native North America) has so much to offer (and I will never be able to absorb it all) that barely scratching the surface of another civilization would be doing it an injustice. I am prepared to entertain the thought that this is just intellectual laziness on my part.

As far as the climate is concerned, the idea of lying on a beach, slowly building up cancerous cells (and being bored out of one's skull) has little appeal. Hence, my affection for places like Edinburgh. My ideal occupation when travelling is 1) walk and see all the museums and buildings of note, then buy the catalogues 2) after all the exercise and culture, repair to a good restaurant and eat and drink well. 3) finally feel like a civilized human being.

Frog in Suit

PS: If I ever have the time and/or the money, I could see myself doing a leisurely tour of the English cathedrals and the stately homes of the UK. Last year we did a short tour of Bavarian baroque.

[storeynicholas]

FiS - Interesting that you have just done a tour of Bavarian Baroque architecture because some friends from the UK just spent 3 weeks doing just that. So much to do, too little time. Actually, on the beach option - I could nearly jump onto it but I haven't been on the beach, despite fine weather, for weeks - even in the Sleepy Hollow, especially with the internet, ther is much to occupy and we do not stagnate. I'm just wondering whether I need to water the garden (hot day) because there's a storm building up.....the other side of tropical living, of course!
NJS

[Guille]

This is an interesting topic but also hard to discuss because it relies heavily on our individual experiences and subjective opinions. However, if we try to analyze those points you mention ("climate and all the things that we want, on a daily basis, as London Loungers - environment, housing, food, drink, entertainment.") and forget about political, economic, social and cultural factors that can be subjective it can work.

Paris for me is a great city - given my experience as a tourist. Frog in Suit is so right about it's walkability, you can go to any place (or at least, any place that is a "place" in Paris) unmotorized. It's notable architectural beauty, concentration of cultural activity, and fantastic culinary locations make it an ideal city for a gentleman. However, non-intellectual entertainment is not as present as in other cities, and the Parisian society can be hard to join. If you manage to catch the essence of the city--I don’t know how to explain it, it’s in the air, you breathe it, but it goes from the nose to the thinking brain, not to the sensitive neurons, and gives you the sensations of a place, not only Paris, but anywhere--, breathe it’s history of breakthroughs and revolutions, it’s medieval times, it’s nature as the capital of Europe for centuries, from le Roi Soleil to Napoleon III, as hallmark of the European decadence and “city of lights” from the Belle Époque to the Nazi invasion passing through ‘les annes folles’ (1920s), and it’s years as headquarters for de Gaulle and the 68’ revolts. It’s all still there, even if it seems like it’s less alive than in it’s glorious past. It’s weather, it’s northern Europe but it doesn’t get that cold, and although it’s rainy it’s not depressing at all. In terms of housing, I don’t know much, but I think it depends on how much money you want to have left for your Mark Guyot bespoke shoes…

I've lived in Oxford for a couple of summers and I've found it a marvellous place. A beautiful town, with a lot of medieval mystery in its corners. It’s society is obviously young, but well-receiving, educated and respectful. I felt that everything in Oxford was pure Englishness, from the cheesecakes, to the afternoons rowing a boat and reading a book on the Thames river (knowing that you could go to London following the current but knowing you wouldn’t want to do so even if you got a bespoke savile row suit for free), passing through getting lost in the forest on a rainy day and having tea after a tennis match on a grass court. I loved the Oxford summer, nice temperatures and very humid (rain and dense vegetation), which, compared to Madrid’s dry, 40ºC and more, and Spanish steppe’s absence of vegetation, is quite comforting. Nothing else to mention, apart from the obvious things like the abundance of cultural activity and historically interesting locations/events (not to miss Blenheim palace, twice as good in every aspect of palaces than Buckingham, in my humble opinion), and the proximity to London for business, travel, or other needs.

I agree with Frog in Suit that Seville is a good city. But I seriously recommend avoiding it to any member of the London Lounge. It’s a nice city to visit, with it’s architecture, it’s history, it’s people (Andalusians can be very nice and open), fantastic food… But for your own sake, and I say this because I’ve been to Seville more than 30 times in my life, do not decide to live in that city. First, housing is hard to find if you want a nice house, on a classic building, in the centre of the city, which is not falling to peaces. Second, it is extremely hard to fit into the Sevillian society, it is very small-minded and anyone who is not from there, not only Americans or Europeans, but even Madrillians (and I don’t consider myself one, really), are considered external and are regarded as secondary citizens by many. This is because the Andalusians, and specially Sevillians, think that what is theirs is the best, in everything, and their world, their lives, are the best, there’s nothing else. This makes them people with whom it is practically impossible to work with, to socialize with, or even to converse with and understand. Plus, although food is excellent, many Andalusians are badly educated and going to a restaurant can be a stressing activity (a lot of noise, no good waiters…) as well as un-hygienic. Adding to this, from April to October it is very hot, so it’s hard to wear a suit or even think properly for half of the year.

I share Frog in Suit’s appeal for colder places and for European places, I think there is too much in Europe to go thinking about visiting Thailand, Malaysia, India, Egypt, U.A.E., Japan… I will visit many places of Asia and Africa in my lifetime, but I give preference to Europe and the Americas.
However, just to mention a city with hot, tropical climate, I think Miami has many positive points. Don’t get me wrong, I would never be able to live there, not only for the heat, but for it’s society, and what’s build on (the same for L.A.). But it’s a great place to go for vacation, to have a summer house, as it has all the goods of the Caribbean (heat, tropical and humid nature, great beaches and sea), but also the goods of being in a mayor American city (a lot of business, a lot of people, a lot of places, a lot of things to do, a lot of,… a lot). There’s entertainment, there’s all sorts of food options to explore, there’s nice architecture (for houses at least, with Mediterranean/Moorish influences)… Perhaps it’s worst factor is big parts of it’s society, but if you’re in summer you should be able to ignore it. And that’s what I like to do in hot places, not lying under the sun doing nothing, but forget about the people, and do some fishing, golfing, playing tennis, boating, swimming, wearing a panama hat…

I prefer not to mention or comment on Madrid, although I know some would like to know about it, because I would need much more time, space, and energy, than I have for this post. I hope my comments are useful, and I’m happy to be posting back in the LL.

[storeynicholas]

Second, it is extremely hard to fit into the Sevillian society, it is very small-minded and anyone who is not from there, not only Americans or Europeans, but even Madrillians (and I don’t consider myself one, really), are considered external and are regarded as secondary citizens by many. This is because the Andalusians, and specially Sevillians, think that what is theirs is the best, in everything, and their world, their lives, are the best, there’s nothing else. This makes them people with whom it is practically impossible to work with, to socialize with, or even to converse with and understand. .

I find this very interesting because I think that many people in the world can be like this; especially if they haven't travelled far from their home towns - they make in-comers fight for a right to be accepted. They expect you to prove that you're worth knowing - and many incomers start off on the wrong foot - "coming in here, buying up our houses..." etc etc; imperfectly speaking the language and so on. Then, one day you get a smile from the grumpiest shop owner in town - and the next day he nearly waves as you pass in the car - and you know that you have actually achieved something... by smiles of attrition, wearing down resistance, just hanging on and waiting... Do you really think that Sevillians are much different from others in this regard?
NJS