On my first full Friday back in Buenos Aires, I returned to Carbone Hermanos to have a shirt made. Though I'd not been in the shop for a year, I was greeted warmly by all and shown two or three large books from which I chose a patterned cotton woven by Alumo.
After some quick measurements, Sr. Caneda assured me that no fitting would be necessary; but, at my insistence, he did arrange that I should come back in a week's time for a prueba.
So I was surprised, when I returned the following Friday, to see the shirt completed, folded and packed with its length of extra cloth. As an established customer, I paid the cost of $380 only then (at the same time, Carbone altered and repaired another tailor's sportcoat without charge).
Although I'd been told last year that Carbone's shirts are entirely sewn by hand, this (as the other shirtmakers' work) appears to have been sewn entirely by machine. I may have forgotten to make my preferences clear, for this shirt has collar stays sewn in and a button placket running down the front. It does fit well, however, and the cloth is very nice indeed.
Buenos Aires
The last shirtmaker I visited was Cheverny, which you, gentle reader, already know as a fine Porteño tailor’s shop. Sr. Marturano greeted me as a friend, thanked me for mentioning his firm on the internet, and asked a few questions about the styling I’d like in my shirt. (He took no measurements, saying that they were unnecessary as he already had the necessary information on file.) I then chose a fine, handsome, pink cotton from some odd lengths piled to one side.
When I returned a week later, the shirt had been completely made up, neatly folded and packed with its square of extra cloth. The cost? Three hundred Argentine pesos, at current exchange about a hundred American dollars. And I walked out with a very well-fitted shirt that I expect will serve me for a good long time.
A curious side-note: I wore to my first meeting with Sr. Marturano the gray suit he’d made for me last year, as I wanted him to see it and to lengthen its sleeves (he did, without charge, of course). When I picked up the altered sackcoat, I asked if, for future reference, he had amended my pattern. Raising a small index card, he said that he’d noted the change and nothing more was needed. Now that I think of it, I must say that nowhere in his shop or workshop do I remember seeing paper patterns -- it would seem that, from the measurements and other notes on a customer’s index card, Sr. Marturano draws the outlines of pieces directly on the cloth.
Has any other Lounger dealt with a good tailor who similarly eschews the making of patterns?
When I returned a week later, the shirt had been completely made up, neatly folded and packed with its square of extra cloth. The cost? Three hundred Argentine pesos, at current exchange about a hundred American dollars. And I walked out with a very well-fitted shirt that I expect will serve me for a good long time.
A curious side-note: I wore to my first meeting with Sr. Marturano the gray suit he’d made for me last year, as I wanted him to see it and to lengthen its sleeves (he did, without charge, of course). When I picked up the altered sackcoat, I asked if, for future reference, he had amended my pattern. Raising a small index card, he said that he’d noted the change and nothing more was needed. Now that I think of it, I must say that nowhere in his shop or workshop do I remember seeing paper patterns -- it would seem that, from the measurements and other notes on a customer’s index card, Sr. Marturano draws the outlines of pieces directly on the cloth.
Has any other Lounger dealt with a good tailor who similarly eschews the making of patterns?
I returned this week to what´s becoming my favored haunt for the southern winter. One of my first tasks was to go to the beautiful little neighborhood around the French embassy and the Jockey Club, and visit Cheverny on Cerrito. There I learned that Sr. Marturano, the owner and cutter, is sick; may he recover fully, and soon! In the meantime, we´ll see just how well his chief assistant can cut (for, as I wrote last year, Sr. Marturano apparently neither makes nor uses paper patterns).
You may remember, dear reader, that during my first extended stay in Buenos Aires, just two years ago, T4phage urged me to find a good, really good shoemaker. I failed, for reasons laid out at the beginning of this thread. However, I´ve since commenced a promising exploration. Stay tuned to this ´site to see how that exploration progresses . . . .
You may remember, dear reader, that during my first extended stay in Buenos Aires, just two years ago, T4phage urged me to find a good, really good shoemaker. I failed, for reasons laid out at the beginning of this thread. However, I´ve since commenced a promising exploration. Stay tuned to this ´site to see how that exploration progresses . . . .
Last edited by RWS on Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cantabrigian
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:26 am
- Location: New York, NY
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It's a bit off the beaten path but Hurlingham is supposed to have a polo bootmaker of some renown who I believe also makes shoes.
If you make it out that way, I'd skip the Hurlingham zoo but would go through Ciudad Jardin del Palomar - an swanky old neighborhood where a number of prominent militares lived back in the day.
If you make it out that way, I'd skip the Hurlingham zoo but would go through Ciudad Jardin del Palomar - an swanky old neighborhood where a number of prominent militares lived back in the day.
Plaudits for Cantabrigian! It is indeed that bootmaker (who makes only some ten or twenty pairs of shoes to measure each year) with whom I propose to work in order to produce a nice pair of wholecuts. How will this unaccustomed co-operation develope? Vamos a ver, vamos a ver (We'll see, we'll see) . . . .
I anticipate posting more about my experiences with shoes, suit, and shirt in a few days. Now, however, I want to answer two questions from fellow Loungers.
What ready-made clothing is to be found in Buenos Aires, and at what prices? Much the same as in the United States, Canada, or western Europe. At the moment, with this long winter drawing to a much-appreciated end, sales (liquidaciones) are everywhere. I´ve seen suits on sale for as little as $99 (about thirty-one American dollars), though not ones that look good even in the shop window; some shoes cost half that, but you, dear reader, would be revolted to read about those. Nicer suits and shoes (by appearance, at least, for I´ve not entered the shops) cost close to what I think they´d cost in the States. Perhaps even more here than there, good-quality clothes and shoes must be commissioned.
Has Buenos Aires any social clubs other than the far-famed Jockey? Yes, hay un montón. Among that huge number are clubs that admit only -- or usually admit only -- men or women in a certain occupation (some of the nicer are the engineers´ club, the Club Naval, the Circulo Militar) or of a certain descent (Spanish, Italian, English-speaking, and many others in this city of very mixed origins). A few offer means of peeking in even if one couldn´t be admitted: I find the restaurant at the clubhouse of the Catalan society to be superb, with some of the tastiest dishes I´ve had anywhere -- and the adjacent theater, the tiny Margarita Xirgú, in the same building, often offers extraordinarily well-produced, innovative, first-run plays.
What ready-made clothing is to be found in Buenos Aires, and at what prices? Much the same as in the United States, Canada, or western Europe. At the moment, with this long winter drawing to a much-appreciated end, sales (liquidaciones) are everywhere. I´ve seen suits on sale for as little as $99 (about thirty-one American dollars), though not ones that look good even in the shop window; some shoes cost half that, but you, dear reader, would be revolted to read about those. Nicer suits and shoes (by appearance, at least, for I´ve not entered the shops) cost close to what I think they´d cost in the States. Perhaps even more here than there, good-quality clothes and shoes must be commissioned.
Has Buenos Aires any social clubs other than the far-famed Jockey? Yes, hay un montón. Among that huge number are clubs that admit only -- or usually admit only -- men or women in a certain occupation (some of the nicer are the engineers´ club, the Club Naval, the Circulo Militar) or of a certain descent (Spanish, Italian, English-speaking, and many others in this city of very mixed origins). A few offer means of peeking in even if one couldn´t be admitted: I find the restaurant at the clubhouse of the Catalan society to be superb, with some of the tastiest dishes I´ve had anywhere -- and the adjacent theater, the tiny Margarita Xirgú, in the same building, often offers extraordinarily well-produced, innovative, first-run plays.
Last edited by RWS on Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have nothing particular to say about this topic, but nonetheless wish to let you know that I have been reading with interest.
I returned home to the States this past weekend and am trying to pull current with work. But I want to add a few words now, with details later, regarding sartorial adventures in the far South.
I had gone back to Cheverny for a suit, made from my cloth, because of the success of a fellow Lounger some months ago (I hope he'll append the full story here). I'm glad I did: although owner and chief cutter José Marturano remains absent and unwell, cutter José Sica (judging from the accent, also an immigrant from southern Italy, and about the same age as Sr. Marturano but much different in personality -- informal, jocular, adaptable) did a fine job on the lightweight wool-and-mohair blend (the only significant flaw, an overhigh buttoning point, arose from my own misguided insistence). The bad news, aside from Sr. Marturano's sickness? Prices are double what they were just two years ago. (This is not a local phenomenon; all Argentina seems to be on the verge of suffering another strong bout of its chronic inflation.)
The shirt from Cheverny -- fabric selected and measurements taken there, construction by contractors elsewhere in the city -- is outstanding, a lovely, casual linen. I anticipate that a third shirt, should I be able to return to Buenos Aires next year, could be nearly perfect.
The shoes, too, may prove outstanding. I returned twice to Casa Fagliano for fittings of, first, a trial shoe for my right foot (a bit tight on the smallest toes, and the lacing not quite fully closed) and, later, of trial shoes for both feet (still the slightest tightness on the toes of the right foot, but with lacing bien cerrado -- well-closed). I'm grateful to Eduardo Fagliano (the son who makes and joins the uppers to brother Hector's beautiful soles and heels, all on their father Rodolfo's lasts) for pressing the work so far forward that it might be finished in a few months' time. And I cannot speak highly enough of the kindness and warmth of the family and the shop, to say nothing of the excellent workmanship which has gained the century-old house its reputation as perhaps the best-regarded maker of polo boots in the world.
I had gone back to Cheverny for a suit, made from my cloth, because of the success of a fellow Lounger some months ago (I hope he'll append the full story here). I'm glad I did: although owner and chief cutter José Marturano remains absent and unwell, cutter José Sica (judging from the accent, also an immigrant from southern Italy, and about the same age as Sr. Marturano but much different in personality -- informal, jocular, adaptable) did a fine job on the lightweight wool-and-mohair blend (the only significant flaw, an overhigh buttoning point, arose from my own misguided insistence). The bad news, aside from Sr. Marturano's sickness? Prices are double what they were just two years ago. (This is not a local phenomenon; all Argentina seems to be on the verge of suffering another strong bout of its chronic inflation.)
The shirt from Cheverny -- fabric selected and measurements taken there, construction by contractors elsewhere in the city -- is outstanding, a lovely, casual linen. I anticipate that a third shirt, should I be able to return to Buenos Aires next year, could be nearly perfect.
The shoes, too, may prove outstanding. I returned twice to Casa Fagliano for fittings of, first, a trial shoe for my right foot (a bit tight on the smallest toes, and the lacing not quite fully closed) and, later, of trial shoes for both feet (still the slightest tightness on the toes of the right foot, but with lacing bien cerrado -- well-closed). I'm grateful to Eduardo Fagliano (the son who makes and joins the uppers to brother Hector's beautiful soles and heels, all on their father Rodolfo's lasts) for pressing the work so far forward that it might be finished in a few months' time. And I cannot speak highly enough of the kindness and warmth of the family and the shop, to say nothing of the excellent workmanship which has gained the century-old house its reputation as perhaps the best-regarded maker of polo boots in the world.
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whyescalar
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:57 pm
- Location: Dagobah
- Contact:
Mr. Storm is probably talking about me. I posted about Cheverny some years ago on another forum. Below occured in March 07. I've redacted some names. Here goes.
As promised, here’s an update on BA. I visited Mr. Maturano last Tuesday, with my wife. I had sent a letter and phoned beforehand. I had also brought with me some “Riviera” cloth from John G. Hardy to make a sportcoat. He measured me, and measurements off a suit jacket made several years ago in London by Darren Beaman when he was with John Kent. I told Mr. Maturano I could make myself available for fittings if necessary, during the week. He said this was not necessary, instead suggesting to return on Friday morning before I had a meeting down the street at the Jockey Club, and it would be ready for a first and final fitting before being completed to send to the States. He admonished me in the future from bringing outside cloth, not because he dislikes working on other’s cloth, but because he has access to Hardy and J.J. Minnis books there in the store, for much cheaper prices. I had a swatch of Worsted Alsport from Hardy, and showed this to Mr. Maturano, who produced the same book, as well as the one my cloth was from (albeit not that design, must be new). He was also the first tailor I have met that complimented another’s work, saying my suit was very well constructed, adding his would take into account my trimming down since this was done. Mine would be two-button, side vents, and natural shoulder. I have square shoulders, so Mr. Maturano said he would use zero padding, and merely extend the same canvas and underlying material he uses on the chest and front up through the shoulder.
He showed my wife and me several suits of other clients, including a batch a the former head of a family-controlled luxury purveyor in Europe. Though not my cup of tea, these were lovely: three-button sky blue velvet sportcoat, proper English hacking jacket (made from Hardy Alsport cloth – stuff is bulletproof), shawl-collared evening jacket, grey pinstripe two-button suit (much like my English blue pinstripe), dark grey, more Italian suit. The detailing, down to sky blue buttons matching the color of the cloth, was amazing. This gentleman is longstanding client of Mr. Maturano, and formerly played a great deal of polo in Argentina. This was disclosed in confidence, as Mr. Maturano and I share a common friend and client. This was actually how I had first found Cheverney. My friend and the aforementioned client are friends.
One small thing: I returned to Cheverny one hour after I had left because I forgot to tell him to place a ticket pocket on the coat. I was down the street on Montevideo while my wife was shopping. He said no problem, and in fact had already started cutting the cloth, having one of my sleeves in his hand when he answered the door.
I returned Friday to find the body completed, one sleeve attached. I had an Oxxford coat on, and asked if he would do the partial lining. He discouraged me from requesting this, as he said the lining would prevent wrinkles in warm weather, and that he would use a very light lining. He pointed to the wrinkles on the coat I had on. I intended to provide him my UPS number for shipping, but he said other clients have been charged too much for tariffs assessed on finished goods, that he suggested sending it with one of my friends. Since the next person coming is the end of June, he asked when we would be leaving (Sunday morning to Rio). He paused, and then said the coat would be delivered Friday evening or Saturday morning to our hotel. We returned from a function that afternoon, to find the coat lying on the bed. Fit was perfect. Shoulders, perfect. Waist suppression, check. Sleeves, too, with functioning cuffs. My wife loved it, and I wore it to a social function on Saturday.
Complaints? Sleeves were set a little lower than promised, and cuffs were a bit wider (I never wear French cuffs). I am sure this can be changed next time around. In the future, he said just send him what I would like by fax [“…grey suit, light cloth”] on the tag in the internal pocket. Payment can be made by express post, US cashier’s check. It has already traveled well, folded in my cabin roller. This was the main reason I went custom, as the amount I travel tears up normally constructed garments.
As promised, here’s an update on BA. I visited Mr. Maturano last Tuesday, with my wife. I had sent a letter and phoned beforehand. I had also brought with me some “Riviera” cloth from John G. Hardy to make a sportcoat. He measured me, and measurements off a suit jacket made several years ago in London by Darren Beaman when he was with John Kent. I told Mr. Maturano I could make myself available for fittings if necessary, during the week. He said this was not necessary, instead suggesting to return on Friday morning before I had a meeting down the street at the Jockey Club, and it would be ready for a first and final fitting before being completed to send to the States. He admonished me in the future from bringing outside cloth, not because he dislikes working on other’s cloth, but because he has access to Hardy and J.J. Minnis books there in the store, for much cheaper prices. I had a swatch of Worsted Alsport from Hardy, and showed this to Mr. Maturano, who produced the same book, as well as the one my cloth was from (albeit not that design, must be new). He was also the first tailor I have met that complimented another’s work, saying my suit was very well constructed, adding his would take into account my trimming down since this was done. Mine would be two-button, side vents, and natural shoulder. I have square shoulders, so Mr. Maturano said he would use zero padding, and merely extend the same canvas and underlying material he uses on the chest and front up through the shoulder.
He showed my wife and me several suits of other clients, including a batch a the former head of a family-controlled luxury purveyor in Europe. Though not my cup of tea, these were lovely: three-button sky blue velvet sportcoat, proper English hacking jacket (made from Hardy Alsport cloth – stuff is bulletproof), shawl-collared evening jacket, grey pinstripe two-button suit (much like my English blue pinstripe), dark grey, more Italian suit. The detailing, down to sky blue buttons matching the color of the cloth, was amazing. This gentleman is longstanding client of Mr. Maturano, and formerly played a great deal of polo in Argentina. This was disclosed in confidence, as Mr. Maturano and I share a common friend and client. This was actually how I had first found Cheverney. My friend and the aforementioned client are friends.
One small thing: I returned to Cheverny one hour after I had left because I forgot to tell him to place a ticket pocket on the coat. I was down the street on Montevideo while my wife was shopping. He said no problem, and in fact had already started cutting the cloth, having one of my sleeves in his hand when he answered the door.
I returned Friday to find the body completed, one sleeve attached. I had an Oxxford coat on, and asked if he would do the partial lining. He discouraged me from requesting this, as he said the lining would prevent wrinkles in warm weather, and that he would use a very light lining. He pointed to the wrinkles on the coat I had on. I intended to provide him my UPS number for shipping, but he said other clients have been charged too much for tariffs assessed on finished goods, that he suggested sending it with one of my friends. Since the next person coming is the end of June, he asked when we would be leaving (Sunday morning to Rio). He paused, and then said the coat would be delivered Friday evening or Saturday morning to our hotel. We returned from a function that afternoon, to find the coat lying on the bed. Fit was perfect. Shoulders, perfect. Waist suppression, check. Sleeves, too, with functioning cuffs. My wife loved it, and I wore it to a social function on Saturday.
Complaints? Sleeves were set a little lower than promised, and cuffs were a bit wider (I never wear French cuffs). I am sure this can be changed next time around. In the future, he said just send him what I would like by fax [“…grey suit, light cloth”] on the tag in the internal pocket. Payment can be made by express post, US cashier’s check. It has already traveled well, folded in my cabin roller. This was the main reason I went custom, as the amount I travel tears up normally constructed garments.
I'm glad that Whyescalar described his experiences with Cheverny. We Loungers share an enthusiasm for well-made clothes, and Whyescalar and I share an enthusiasm for the Argentine.
Sitting in my little place in Vermont, wearing a disappointing shirt from Buenos Aires, I'm prompted by reading Whyescalar's posting to add a few words about shirtmakers in that city many thousands of miles to the south. The shirt made for me by Sir Greytton never fit very well. That it was made of Brazilian cotton told against it, too, and the shirt has now shrunk to the point that the collar cannot be buttoned around my none-too-thick neck.
By contrast, the shirts from Cheverny's contractor get better and better. My last commission was for a pretty windowpane linen. Not only does it fit almost perfectly (perfection's coming up in the next, no doubt), but the buttons were beautifully handshanked and the shirt handfinished without my even requesting handwork.
When I return to Buenos Aires again, perhaps in July, I'll try to have a shirt or two made by a little old shop I stumbled across this August and a suit or odd jacket and trousers by a tailor's shop that enjoys a good custom among the more affluent porteño men.
My fellow Loungers will, of course, be among the first to learn of my experiences, good or bad.
Sitting in my little place in Vermont, wearing a disappointing shirt from Buenos Aires, I'm prompted by reading Whyescalar's posting to add a few words about shirtmakers in that city many thousands of miles to the south. The shirt made for me by Sir Greytton never fit very well. That it was made of Brazilian cotton told against it, too, and the shirt has now shrunk to the point that the collar cannot be buttoned around my none-too-thick neck.
By contrast, the shirts from Cheverny's contractor get better and better. My last commission was for a pretty windowpane linen. Not only does it fit almost perfectly (perfection's coming up in the next, no doubt), but the buttons were beautifully handshanked and the shirt handfinished without my even requesting handwork.
When I return to Buenos Aires again, perhaps in July, I'll try to have a shirt or two made by a little old shop I stumbled across this August and a suit or odd jacket and trousers by a tailor's shop that enjoys a good custom among the more affluent porteño men.
My fellow Loungers will, of course, be among the first to learn of my experiences, good or bad.
Last edited by RWS on Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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masterfred
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:16 am
- Contact:
RWS and whyescalar, let me thank you for these really enjoyable accounts, which I have read with great interest. My wife lived in 1980s-era BA as a teenager, and loved the city. She has been back since then, but I've never been able to work out my schedule to accompany her. She had learned, for lack of a better word, mainstream Spanish, and struggled a while with the porteno dialect and accent.
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voxsartoria
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:00 pm
- Contact:
I have posted some photographs of bespoke riding boots from La Casa de Las Botas on another forum:
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=56346
Best Regards,
Bill
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=56346
Best Regards,
Bill
Attractive boots, Bill -- though I'd have been pleased to see a bit more of the blue Vasses! I think I remember passing the Casa d LB on a walk but don't remember where it's located (a bit off Avenida Santa Fe, perhaps?). Do you know whether the Casa d LB will make shoes (I enjoy riding but no longer compete, so I can't see getting another pair of boots and, besides, am so far more than satisfied by Fagliano)?
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voxsartoria
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:00 pm
- Contact:
Dear R:
Yes, LCdLB is off Sante Fe, at 5062 Paraguay ( 54-11/4776-0762 ). Jorge Da Silva Villagrán, the proprieter, is a pleasant and no-nonsense fellow who knows his way around a paddock. I am very pleased with the boots.
I saw no shoes, but there was the usual variety of low boots (chelseas, jodhpurs, etc.) which can be had RTW or bespoke. I saw several lovely young porteñas buy RTW low boots while I was getting fitted.
Turnaround on bespoke is quite nice as well...I had my boots in Boston in less than ten weeks.
As for the midnight blue Vass...I hope to post some closeups at SF in a day or two.
I really had a fabulous time in BA...stayed at the Alvear.
Best Regards,
Bill
Yes, LCdLB is off Sante Fe, at 5062 Paraguay ( 54-11/4776-0762 ). Jorge Da Silva Villagrán, the proprieter, is a pleasant and no-nonsense fellow who knows his way around a paddock. I am very pleased with the boots.
I saw no shoes, but there was the usual variety of low boots (chelseas, jodhpurs, etc.) which can be had RTW or bespoke. I saw several lovely young porteñas buy RTW low boots while I was getting fitted.
Turnaround on bespoke is quite nice as well...I had my boots in Boston in less than ten weeks.
As for the midnight blue Vass...I hope to post some closeups at SF in a day or two.
I really had a fabulous time in BA...stayed at the Alvear.
Best Regards,
Bill
An Argentine friend who, at my suggestion, called Casa Fagliano to enquire about the bespoke making of a pair of shoes was told that the firm is not now making shoes a medida. Does this mean that Fagliano has abandoned custom shoemaking? Or merely that it is not adding new customers? More to the point, what of the pair of shoes that I commissioned last July?
Stay tuned -- in two months' time, your investigative reporter will wing his way back South, 'way South.
Stay tuned -- in two months' time, your investigative reporter will wing his way back South, 'way South.
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