Fresco and hopsack

[Mr Hillier]

Gentlemen,

I've been reading about 'fresco' weaves, and am pondering a couple of points. If anyone would like to help me out, I'd be very grateful.

Firstly, I'm still not totally sure what the definition of a 'fresco' weave is. I have gathered the following:

-it is a worsted cloth;

-it is often woven with a high-twist yarn;

-it is woven in a loose plain weave so that air can flow through the cloth; and

-it often has a rougher hand than the fineness of the yarn would suggest.

I also understand that it is often woven in light weights, to make it suitable for suitings for warm climates.

In fact, I recently had two suits made up from fabric that was described on the selvedge as 'High Performance Crepe - Super 120s - Pure New Wool'. The cloth is not much over 200g/m, and is great in hot weather - the jacket is half lined, and the breeze goes straight through the trousers. The cloth is a little rough to the touch, if it is held up to the light, it lets plenty of light through and was made in England. Does this sound like a fresco?

I actually bought the cloth from someone who sells roll ends and short lengths, and I would love to know where to buy more of it. Does that selvedge ring any bells with anyone?

Another question: given that 'fresco' is often a lightweight cloth, what are heavyweight frescos used for? I've seen one at 550g/m, which looks nice, but I'm curious as to how it will wear. I'm assuming that because of the air passing through, it will never be a winter cloth, so it seems to be neither fish nor fowl.

One last question: what is a hopsack? I understand it is a type of basket weave, but I'm only slightly better off for that information. I have a length of hopsack in my cupboard which is around 400g/m, and I'm at a loss what to do with it. It also has a lot of space in the weave, and like the fresco, I'm thinking as a suit it will be too hot for summer and too cold for winter.

Any thoughts?

Hillier

[dufossat]

I too would like to know the structural difference between fresco and hopsack.

[schneidergott]

Hello, Gentlemen!

Mr. Hillier's explanation of Fresco is absolutely right, nothing to add to that.

I have checked my old textile dictionaries for Hopsack and here is the result:

Hopsack, if I got it right, is a variation of the panama-weave, but instead of one thread crossing the other there are generally 4 on 4(not worsted, I guess). This of course creates a softer cloth, which is warmer than any fresco or tropical. I can't tell if it's warm enough for winter, depends on how tightly it is woven and how heavy it is. My dictionary calls it a cloth for overcoat and costume, so it should work as such. In an old magazine I found an image of hopsack for overcoats with a weight about 600gr or 18oz. So I guess a 400gr hopsack is good for moderately temperatured regions with either "colder" summers or mild winters, but still probably not warm enough for an overcoat, but try it for a coat.
The heavy fresco is the medium weight fresco of, let's say 30 years ago, meant to be a cloth for coats. As you may have noticed, it does not easily wrinkle or crash like other weaves. If you say the breeze goes through it, it's not meant for an overcoat in cold winter regions. But should be nice in spring if you put in a heavy liningsatin or serge).


Hope I could help,


SG

[Richard3]

Coincidentally the suit I pictured in the "jacket length" thread is a hopsack. It`s a really heavy suit meant for fall/winter wear. Nevertheless I got the impression that despite it`s weight (about 400gr) the suit does not nearly wear as warm as a flannel one of similar or even lighter weight. So it even can be worn on colder summer days which is unthinkable of flannel. Here`s a (bad) picture:




A light fresco, from my point of view, is one of the best suiting fabrics for summer wear. That`s one of mine:

[Mr Hillier]

Thank you for the comments.

I'm still curious as to what a heavier 'fresco' weave would wear like. I have seen one at around 18oz, and I like the cloth. However, I'm wondering how warm it will wear and how it will appear when made up - I'm looking for a formal winter suit for a cold climate (winter zero to minus ten centigrade). I'm definitely looking for a heavyweight cloth for its appearance.

Also, am I right in thinking that the Dormeuil 'Sportex' cloths are hopsacks?

Any thoughts?

Hillier

[Mr Hillier]

SG:

Thanks for the detailed information.

It sounds like the hopsack is just about useless for me - winter here never gets above zero, and falls to below minus ten, and summer is very rarely below thirty degrees, often closer to forty, sometimes over forty. Worse yet, there is only a few weeks in between, so three season suits end up being no-season suits.

The same might go for the heavy fresco: I'm not sure how much breeze does go through it, what is a heavywieght fresco usually like? What characteristics does a fresco of that weight have as compared with other suitings? How does it drape?

Richard:

Thanks for the comments and pictures.

I couldn't agree more about the light fresco being fantastic for summer. The two suits I mentioned couldn't be better, even in temperatures of well over thirty degrees. I think I'll get a suit in a slightly heavier fresco next year, and have it made up completely unlined.

Your comments on the hopsack more or less agree with SG, and what I would guess from looking at the length I have. I'll just keep it on top of the wardrobe pending a move to a milder climate, "it dun't eat owt", as they say where I come from.

We'll take up the jacket length issue another time...

Hillier