Marcella shirt

[BirdofSydney]

I understand that the only proper dinner shirt style that doesn't take studs is the covered placket, the idea being that with cufflinks, there are no visible buttons anywhere on the shirt.

As for the marcella shirt, I'm not sure they're necessarily incorrect with a voile turndown collar, and have seen it used effectively though examples don't come immediately to memory.

As a footnote, I have just looked at Roetzel's book, and at pp 322-3 he depicts a marcella shirt that does, in fact have a placket. It looks unnecessarily complex, in my opinion.

[Algernon]

Marcella is simply a type of fabric, also known as pique, resembling the surface of a golf ball. An evening shirt made with marcell can come in diverse guises: I have a tunic shirt with smooth starched single cuffs and startched Marcella bib, to be worn with a wing collar for white tie - in fact I wear it for black tie too. That is probably the most formal style; alternatively one can go to the other extreme and have a marcella front with a placet and no studs, marcella turn-back cuffs and a turn-down marcella collar - I would suggest that that is more formal than the equivalent with a pleated front - although I own neither. My personal preference of for a fully startched and polished linen shirt front, for use with studs, and single cuffs again heavily starched and polished, and a seperate wing collar similarly treated. But even at university functions one has infrequent occasion to wear such shirts, alas. Mine came from Budd in Piccadily. Only place that sels them as far as I know.

A good website with information on such things is that of the Cambridge Univ. Heraldic and Genealogical Society: http://www.societies.cam.ac.uk/cuhags/whitetie/defn.htm

Oh, and as a footnote, the latest Bond shirt is Marcella fronted & collared: pop into T&A and they'll happily show you one.

[Rudolf]

Dear Algernon,
I perfectly agree with your wearing habits regarding the more fomal (detachable collar) marcella dress shirt and even share your preference for the simple linen starched front. But how on earth do you get this kind of shirt properly starched and polished?
Of course, being a customer to Budd's, I know that they have a laundry service for these occasions, but for me is seems to be a little bit complicated to send my shirts from Germany to London for laundry. Are there also practical hints for home usage?
Any ideas are enthusiastically welcomed here!

[Algernon]

Dear Rudlof;

You have raised an important issue. The main obstacle to wearing seperate collars is the cost of the habit; the cost of three startchings is more than that of the collar itself! Of course, one doesn't actually wear the evening wear for that long, so it is often not too much of a hardship to wear a shirt a few times before getting it pressed. Collars require more attention. In Oxford, Ede & Ravenscroft will starch collars, as they sell the things. In London, 'Jeeves of Belgravia' also do them passably. It certainly can't be done at home I'm afraid, so i don't know what to suggest - other than trying to educate a local dry-cleaner or some such, who may have the equipment to apply starch repeatedly and under heat.

[Concordia]

OK, here's a question for the board. My new dress shirt arrived yesterday-- not the really textured "golf ball" surface, but more of a diamond weave fabric. Due to some miscommunication, the front is not the placketed sort that accompanies pleated shirts, but is the "white tie" variety that is a simple overlap accomodating studs. No huge deal.

The collar, however, for reasons not known yet, an attached wing collar. As bad as these look on normal civilians, they look even worse under my face, propped as it is on an 18" neck. So a phone call is in order, and I'm assuming that there is a fix that can be performed.

The question: would a turn-down collar be a horrible misfit (or even a slight misfit) with this type of shirt-front, and would a detached wing collar therefore be a much preferred solution?

[masterfred]

I don't see why a turndown would look out of place at all, although I do have a weakness for detachable wing collars. If you think they look silly on you, though, a turndown - maybe in the same fabric as the shirt itself - would be perfectly fine.

[Topper]

Ohh another thread of interest

Marcella or pique fabric is used on dress shirts, various styles have appread over the ages for different black tie wear... BUT traditionally worn only with white Tie.

I consider the following to be the mainstream tradition:

• white marcella bib on front - This is a short bib ( as you have marcella wasitcoat) .
  Bib has 3 studs ( you get 4 in a set 1 spare)
  Shirt has cut on left side to allow hand inside to assist in placment of studs
  Studs - Mother of pearl tipped, have a removab screw thread tip to assist in mounting.
  Cuffs - Single (Not double/french) - starched, not soft.
  Cufflinks - Plain Siver or Mother of pearl
  Detachable collar - Stiff starched Wing tip or "imperial" high. with collar studs - antique whale bone is best

Other Marcella variotions exist as mentioned , with pique down the whole front, and often these willl have a softnon starched texture, and have soft double cuffs also marcella. These shirts are the ones designed for 'Balck-tie' jacket, rather than white tie. Personally I would recommend a plain fold down collar dress shirt for black tie, and keep Marcella for White tie only.


The "Diamond weave" to which Concordia is mentionins sounds like it is marcella... Whilst explained as golf-ball like, the pattern is diamond - BUT be aware is can be 90 degreed outi f they manufacturered it incorrectly.

[manton]

Concordia:

My Marcella black tie shirt has a turn down collar and no placket. I think we have discussed this before on another thread. I assumed that was the only way it could be made. The fabric is so thick, I have to use screw top studs as it is. If there were another layer from the placket, I wonder if I would be able to get any set of studs through it.

I note also, FWIW, that Budd does (or did) sell a RTW Marcella shirt, turndown collar, no placket. Budd is as traditional as Jermyn Street shirtmakers get.

[DD MacDonald]

Concordia, I'll echo Manton here. I have Budd shirt with removeable collars and a Hackett shirt with a fixed fold-down collar. All of the fold-down collars are marellla which is closer to a diamond weave than a golfball and the faces of both shirts have no placket as you and Manton describe.

To my eyes, the look is classic and I've never felt out of step.

In terms of fixing the collar, attached or not, it might vex them to spend their time but I see no reason why the garment can't be put right without resprting to remaking it.

Good luck

DDM

[HappyStroller]

Well, I have just commissioned a Marcella shirt with the following:-

a. Marcella semi-spread collar;
b. Marcella French cuffs;
c. Marcella bib;
d. No placket;
e. Single stud; and,
f. White viole body and sleeves.

The Swiss cotton diamond-weave pique cloth made from Egyptian cotton fabric actually carries the name Marcella, unlike the other piques shown in the shirt-maker's other books.

I was surprised to learn viole is a very thin fabric; one needs to wear an undershirt, which I do, fortunately.

I was asked about the shape of the cuffs, which caught me by surprise as that wasn't discussed in this thread so far. So I chose rounded corners over square cut. Hope that's not a mistake.

I hope it's also not a mistake not to have the placket since Concordia mentioned a tailor calling the French front a black tie front. Perhaps French cuffs go with French front?

I also hope I didn't make another mistake interpreting Manton's choice of words, specifically 'medium spread' as 'semi-spread' for the collar.

Now that I realize it, perhaps I went too far with the choice of a single stud for a black tie shirt, have I?

Here is what I have always understood a Marcella shirt to be:

It is a semi-formal evening shirt, thus wearable for black tie only. It is a "middle ground" between the wing collar shirt (which is correct with the SB peak DJ) and the pleated front shirt (which is correct with any DJ). The Marcella shirt has a turndown collar made of pique (typically the diamond weave pique). It also has a front bib and double cuffs made of pique. All of the above are attached. The body and sleeves are white voile. The front takes two or three studs. There is no placket.

I like this with a DB DJ, and in fact that is how I made my favorite formal shirt.

[Rudolf]

Now that I realize it, perhaps I went too far with the choice of a single stud for a black tie shirt, have I?

It all depends, if I may add my opinion, on the shape of the vest (or weskitt?).

Usually, dinnersuits are worn with a cummerbund which puts the length of the front bib right down to almost the waistline.
If you opt for a proper evening vest (to be worn with a single-breasted peak lapel jacket) with three buttons, a single-stud (english style) front bib may be appropriate even though you risk a gap between this front stud and the collar or the vest once you try to sit down or bow down.

I have collected quite a lot of dress stud sets to tell you that they (i.e. single-stud sets with matching vest buttons) were solely available in England as late as the 1930s. The U.S. manufacturers (e.g. Krementz or Larter) did not produce those sets after the early 1920s. In Germany, you had to buy your studs at the jeweller adn you could order any quantity or constellation (four vest buttons/three vest buttons/matching chain cufflinks). They usually prefered to have pearls for the front studs in Germany (and of course in England).

[Concordia]

So the phone call was made, and there will be a turn-down collar attached as soon as I can get it back to London. A small annoyance in the grand scheme of things, especially as the rest of the order turned out quite well.

[HappyStroller]

Hope you remember to specify that attached turn-down collar is a semi-spread point collar made from Marcella.

Actually, I had a pique shirt made in December. The clothier did not follow my specifications. In fact, the the original cloth retailer seemed to have substituted the pique fabric with another with smaller squares pattern. The collar was also not pique, but made from broadcloth cotton, just like the rest of the shirt. The French cuffs and bib front were made with pique. But the pique used wasn't Marcella (the pique with the diamond weave pattern). So feeling rather disappointed, I commissioned the new Marcella shirt. The fake Marcella shirt shall remain forever within the borders of China for use within Chinese social circles, including ball-room dancing tuition lessons which are available in Shanghai's newly-opened ballroom club.

So the phone call was made, and there will be a turn-down collar attached as soon as I can get it back to London. A small annoyance in the grand scheme of things, especially as the rest of the order turned out quite well.

[HappyStroller]

Hope someone can comment on the shape of cuffs chosen for my Marcella shirt.

Well, I have just commissioned a Marcella shirt with the following:-

a. Marcella semi-spread collar;
b. Marcella French cuffs;
c. Marcella bib;
d. No placket;
e. Single stud; and,
f. White viole body and sleeves.

...<snip>...
I was asked about the shape of the cuffs, which caught me by surprise as that wasn't discussed in this thread so far. So I chose rounded corners over square cut. Hope that's not a mistake.
...<snip>...

[ccox]

I note also, FWIW, that Budd does (or did) sell a RTW Marcella shirt, turndown collar, no placket. Budd is as traditional as Jermyn Street shirtmakers get.

Got mine at Budd a number of years ago. It is as Manton has described it and I find it very useful during warm Summer months or under my very heavy vintage DB at overheated functions. Took me a while to get used to the transparent sleeves and back, but as I would never remove my jacket (except in a dire emergency), it hasn't turned out to be any sort of issue.