What would you say are the most common dressing faults you daily observe?
I would suggest the follow 6:
1. Coat sleeves too long. Shirt cuffs too long.
2. Shirt collar too large.
3. Trouser cuffs too long. Puddles.
4. Muddy colored suits. Ordinary business uniforms. Lack of color awareness throughout outfit.
5. Proportion. Tie knots too big/small. Coats too long. Trousers too wide. Unflattering choice of silhouette.
6. Inappropriate shoes. Either qualilty, style or color.
Clothing Faults
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Guest
For The Netherlands:Anonymous wrote:What would you say are the most common dressing faults you daily observe?
I would suggest the follow 6:
1. Coat sleeves too long. Shirt cuffs too long.
2. Shirt collar too large.
3. Trouser cuffs too long. Puddles.
4. Muddy colored suits. Ordinary business uniforms. Lack of color awareness throughout outfit.
5. Proportion. Tie knots too big/small. Coats too long. Trousers too wide. Unflattering choice of silhouette.
6. Inappropriate shoes. Either qualilty, style or color.
1. Clothes that draw attention away from the person wearing them, either through colors used, lack of proper fit or a combination of those.
2. Inappropiate shoes, or not proper caring for them
3. Inappropiate coats, particularly those used for sailing, made by brands such as Tenson
4. Brand-obsession
5. Shorts, unless used on holidays or for yachting
6. Jeans, any kind.
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Guest
You know, even if many of the faults are covered, i..e. they don't exist on a particular suit wearer, I still find that most suits have no dash, the wearers no sprezzatura.
I have a chance to travel in Europe on business occasionally , and get a great opportunity on the early morning flights between business centers to see alot of men in their business uniforms, dressing their best. There seems to be a concentration of them on some flights.
I am talking about men who obviously care about their appearance, who are in the professions with the wherewithal to spend good money on their clothes, and guys who are obviously dressing for success.
But still....the style is missing.
Yes, the suit fits, no obvious faults, at least few of those mentioned above - these guys are consciously savvy dressers.. And their clothes look expensive, even perfect.
But that certain something is missing.
I think that yes, it is sprezzatura as well as that certain quirkiness and character found in a bespoke suit, found in a man who cares enough about his clothes and appearance and , importantly, his style, to go to a bespoke tailor. But who is not so obviously dressing for a purpose.
Many bespoke suits are not perfect, not symmetrical, have different length shoulders, sleeves unequal length, any number of imperfections and carelessness in the wearer. Yet that is precisely the character found in handcut, handmade garments as well as the character of the wearer.
I can forgive any number of faults in a garment if it has style and dash and is similarly worn .
Similarly, the wearer of such bespoke garments put things together and wear their clothes in a way that even a perfectly dressed man does not achieve. And a bespoke wearer may be less perfectly dressed , though better dressed.
There are quirks in bespoke; there is something off. There is something unusual and attractive about bespoke garments and their wearers. I would even go so far as to say that I would expect to find that members of this small bespoke community to be a bit odd, eccentric, unique and quirky.
So really, even if a suit is technically perfect, there is more to dressing than eliminating the faults; there is that much more difficult part about developing one’s own style, putting it together cohesively yet nonchalantly, wearing clothing for ones own satisfaction rather than with purpose or artifice, and ultimately forgetting about the clothes and getting on with it.
uppercase
I have a chance to travel in Europe on business occasionally , and get a great opportunity on the early morning flights between business centers to see alot of men in their business uniforms, dressing their best. There seems to be a concentration of them on some flights.
I am talking about men who obviously care about their appearance, who are in the professions with the wherewithal to spend good money on their clothes, and guys who are obviously dressing for success.
But still....the style is missing.
Yes, the suit fits, no obvious faults, at least few of those mentioned above - these guys are consciously savvy dressers.. And their clothes look expensive, even perfect.
But that certain something is missing.
I think that yes, it is sprezzatura as well as that certain quirkiness and character found in a bespoke suit, found in a man who cares enough about his clothes and appearance and , importantly, his style, to go to a bespoke tailor. But who is not so obviously dressing for a purpose.
Many bespoke suits are not perfect, not symmetrical, have different length shoulders, sleeves unequal length, any number of imperfections and carelessness in the wearer. Yet that is precisely the character found in handcut, handmade garments as well as the character of the wearer.
I can forgive any number of faults in a garment if it has style and dash and is similarly worn .
Similarly, the wearer of such bespoke garments put things together and wear their clothes in a way that even a perfectly dressed man does not achieve. And a bespoke wearer may be less perfectly dressed , though better dressed.
There are quirks in bespoke; there is something off. There is something unusual and attractive about bespoke garments and their wearers. I would even go so far as to say that I would expect to find that members of this small bespoke community to be a bit odd, eccentric, unique and quirky.
So really, even if a suit is technically perfect, there is more to dressing than eliminating the faults; there is that much more difficult part about developing one’s own style, putting it together cohesively yet nonchalantly, wearing clothing for ones own satisfaction rather than with purpose or artifice, and ultimately forgetting about the clothes and getting on with it.
uppercase
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Guest
re: #6. I live in the Netherlands, and I WEAR jeans.......Anonymous wrote:
1. Clothes that draw attention away from the person wearing them, either through colors used, lack of proper fit or a combination of those.
2. Inappropiate shoes, or not proper caring for them
3. Inappropiate coats, particularly those used for sailing, made by brands such as Tenson
4. Brand-obsession
5. Shorts, unless used on holidays or for yachting
6. Jeans, any kind.
Do I consider it a faux pas? No, I think those who do are extremely a....al!What I consider the oddest 'fault' is on weekends, when men wear very casual shorts, short dark dress socks and dress shoes.
T4phage
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Guest
Please do accept my apologies if you were offended by my words in any way. I might have been a bit blunt there.Anonymous wrote:re: #6. I live in the Netherlands, and I WEAR jeans.......
What I consider the oddest 'fault' is on weekends, when men wear very casual shorts, short dark dress socks and dress shoes.
T4phage
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Guest
Oh no need to apologise! These are our own personal opinions after all!Anonymous wrote: Please do accept my apologies if you were offended by my words in any way. I might have been a bit blunt there.
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Guest
Faults in fit are easy to correct, if you are aware of them.
And you really need to move to bespoke to correct many of the fitting faults found in RTW, there's no doubt about that. So it's going to cost you some money.
But developing style is a whole different issue and much harder to acquire.
It would be nice to have a father or grandfather to set you on the right road early on in life.
I don't know how many of you have had mentors or simply found yourselves interested in the subject on your own.
But it is very easy to become an unknowing victim of the fashion magazines or someone misguided in matters of menswear, even if you want to start acquiring the knowledge.
These misguided values can last a lifetime. And they are very hard to rearrange or change once acquired.
That's what's nice about bespoke because you can tap into a very old tradition with standards, values and people with judgement.
Otherwise, you can be torn between choosing from so many trends and directions , without anchor.
I've talked to some oldtimer tailors about when to start a young man, my boy in my case, on bespoke; I've been generally advised around 18.
I don't know if an 18 year old would be interested in such things but what a great education to be able to speak to people who have dressed some of the most elegant man.
Men like Mario Caraceni, Mariano Rubinacci, Tommy Caraceni and I'm sure many, many other old timers could really provide an education that you just can't buy. What a treat!
Getting a great start is very important and we're not all afforded with that opportunity but certainly developing one's own style, and eye, can't be bought and goes beyond correcting the faults.
uppercase
And you really need to move to bespoke to correct many of the fitting faults found in RTW, there's no doubt about that. So it's going to cost you some money.
But developing style is a whole different issue and much harder to acquire.
It would be nice to have a father or grandfather to set you on the right road early on in life.
I don't know how many of you have had mentors or simply found yourselves interested in the subject on your own.
But it is very easy to become an unknowing victim of the fashion magazines or someone misguided in matters of menswear, even if you want to start acquiring the knowledge.
These misguided values can last a lifetime. And they are very hard to rearrange or change once acquired.
That's what's nice about bespoke because you can tap into a very old tradition with standards, values and people with judgement.
Otherwise, you can be torn between choosing from so many trends and directions , without anchor.
I've talked to some oldtimer tailors about when to start a young man, my boy in my case, on bespoke; I've been generally advised around 18.
I don't know if an 18 year old would be interested in such things but what a great education to be able to speak to people who have dressed some of the most elegant man.
Men like Mario Caraceni, Mariano Rubinacci, Tommy Caraceni and I'm sure many, many other old timers could really provide an education that you just can't buy. What a treat!
Getting a great start is very important and we're not all afforded with that opportunity but certainly developing one's own style, and eye, can't be bought and goes beyond correcting the faults.
uppercase
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Guest
Upper-
You bring up a good point about age. I would say that while very few 18 year olds enjoy receiving advice and counsel from their fathers, most really enjoy sitting down with and talking to other adult men.
You bring up a good point about age. I would say that while very few 18 year olds enjoy receiving advice and counsel from their fathers, most really enjoy sitting down with and talking to other adult men.
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Guest
It's very important to have a mentor, a trusted , respected person to bring young men along in the sartorial arts, as well as other worldly concerns.
Also, advising non-verbally, through example , seems to be well accepted.
In some cultures, traditional cultures, young men are more accepting of the wisdom of their elders; in the US, less so although I suspect that in traditional households that there is still a place for respecting the experiiences and lessons learned of elders.
It's interesting to think about how some of this distilled knowledge can be passed on.
uppercase
Also, advising non-verbally, through example , seems to be well accepted.
In some cultures, traditional cultures, young men are more accepting of the wisdom of their elders; in the US, less so although I suspect that in traditional households that there is still a place for respecting the experiiences and lessons learned of elders.
It's interesting to think about how some of this distilled knowledge can be passed on.
uppercase
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Guest
It is obviously difficult to commence bespoke orders while still growing, but at around sixteen to eighteen it is time for a first bespoke suit.
My grandfather's old tailor kitted me out with a suit, two sportscoats and a few grey flannel trousers when I turned sixteen. Apart from the occasional casual trousers, I never bought off the rack. Simply impossible once you get used to well fitting clothes.
I very much agree with the observations on business dress. Neat but devoid of style. Mostly those who dress in this manner are prone to very unstylish casual choices, in my experience.
TVD
My grandfather's old tailor kitted me out with a suit, two sportscoats and a few grey flannel trousers when I turned sixteen. Apart from the occasional casual trousers, I never bought off the rack. Simply impossible once you get used to well fitting clothes.
I very much agree with the observations on business dress. Neat but devoid of style. Mostly those who dress in this manner are prone to very unstylish casual choices, in my experience.
TVD
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