Marinella seven-fold tie

"The brute covers himself, the rich man and the fop adorn themselves, the elegant man dresses!"

-Honore de Balzac

Costi
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Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:01 pm

it would make certain bathroom procedures very tedious, and certain stretches potentially injurious!
Very much so... I only saw this kind of contraption once, as I happened to be early on a fitting appointment with my shirtmaker and she was fitting a young man who was a dancer to a very slim stage shirt. He had not tucked it into his pants, so, much to my amazement, it looked like he had a white tail hanging behind :lol: Later on the shirtmaker explained to me the construction and the purpose of the thing. Apparently professional dancers can't do without it.
dopey
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:22 pm

This is my best attempt at illustrating the Talbott seven-fold pattern, which is my favorite execution. I cannot say the same for the silk itself. I have another Talbott seven-fold that is simply unwearable.

My camera is not working, so these are taken with a scanner, which forces the tie flat. I apologize, but it is the best I could do.

ImageImageImage
zegnamtl
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Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:01 pm

Uppercase,
The Kiton looks like a very beautiful tie.

Recently I met with Mr. De Matteis of Kiton and he was explaining why the Kiton 8 fold is a much better design and how it ties such a lovely knot as a result.

I have some 7s but have not seen the 8s.
I wonder if there is merit to the idea behind the 8 fold or is it hype?
pchong
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Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:28 am

excellent discussion and wonderful ties...thank you gentlemen.
SilkCity
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Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:24 pm

BTW,
Filangieri,

Are you familiar with the Cappelli tie make in Napoli?
He has a small shop around Via Filiangieri.

Also, Sabino of Napoli is in NYC this week--snow and all.
Along with Sabino comes Sig. Salvatore Piccolo, Neapolitan bespoke shirtmaker
who does some splendid work...learned from his mother who is still cutting.
dopey
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Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:09 pm

deleted by author
uppercase
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Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:48 pm

http://www.electaweb.it/electa/eng/libr ... 2921&ed=53

This might be an interesting book about Marinella ties to add to one's collection.

Although I couldn't find the title at Amazon under ISBN: 8837029217
Will

Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:56 pm

The Marinella book is available from Amazon UK but not from Amazon USA, as of a week ago.
FIHTies
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Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:57 pm

Costi wrote:
it would make certain bathroom procedures very tedious, and certain stretches potentially injurious!
Very much so... I only saw this kind of contraption once, as I happened to be early on a fitting appointment with my shirtmaker and she was fitting a young man who was a dancer to a very slim stage shirt. He had not tucked it into his pants, so, much to my amazement, it looked like he had a white tail hanging behind :lol: Later on the shirtmaker explained to me the construction and the purpose of the thing. Apparently professional dancers can't do without it.
Ahhh... None of you have any contact with children?

The classic body suit used in childrens clothing from birth to about 2 months uses this very technique, and is useful in keeping the childs belly clothed and warm at all times despite the gyrations that a typical toddler may go through on a daily basis.

Image

In the case of the Petit Bateau image I have attached, (The French classic childrens underwear line) snaps are used instead of buttons. Significantly cheaper than a Marinella shirt I might add!
FIHTies
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Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:42 pm

dopey wrote:This is my best attempt at illustrating the Talbott seven-fold pattern, which is my favorite execution. I cannot say the same for the silk itself. I have another Talbott seven-fold that is simply unwearable.

Image
Image
Image
If I may elaborate on the thought that dopey was trying to convey.

Typically on a regularly constructed tie the lining of the tie protects the face of the tie from showing the creases of the back of the tie when the back part of the tie is folded under. In an unlined tie as there is nothing separating the back crease from pressing through to the front of the tie and depending on the way the tie lies in storage and depending on the material of the tie (weaves more of an issue than twills) the face of the tie may show the underside of the tie pressing through.
On the Talbott version of the seven fold the first fold comes all the way across the back of the open end of the tie. What this does is to create the same shielding effect that a lining would.

I can post some pics a little bit later to illustrate the differences of the two as well as the effect that I am referring to.
uppercase
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Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:56 am

I wonder if "slip knots", if that is the proper term, is necessarily a sign of better quality construction?

I have rarely seen these threads which one can gently pull to straighten out a bunched tie.

I haven't seen it on the Marinella but the Rubinacci sfoderata does have them, which Mr. Rubinacci seems quite proud of.
FIHTies
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Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:01 pm

uppercase wrote:I wonder if "slip knots", if that is the proper term, is necessarily a sign of better quality construction?

I have rarely seen these threads which one can gently pull to straighten out a bunched tie.

I haven't seen it on the Marinella but the Rubinacci sfoderata does have them, which Mr. Rubinacci seems quite proud of.
The correct term is the Slip stitch, instituted by a man named Langsford.

All the Marinella that I carry have them although they arent as prominently displayed as in some ties. I suspect the reason is becuase Marinella need not display that its a quality tie. Peel back the folds of any quality tie on the wide blade as in the smaller and you will see a looped thread, which is the slip stitch.

By contrast it has become vogue for ties to have large slip stitches I think as their way of saying "Look! I have one TOO!"
uppercase
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Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:04 am

....so all quality ties have slip stiches?

I'm going to dig through my ties and see if I can find them...not that I have ever had cause to use them.

But not knowing how a tie is really constructed, I wonder if the slip stich is a basic part of the construction on any tie, or is it an added feature on better ties only.?
uppercase
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Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:38 pm

Why is it that the Marinella ties are not cut on the bias?

I have just a few, but none is cut on the bias.

Strange that, I thought that it was a mark of quality, to stop the tie from curlling.

In any case, the ties don't curl but hang very straight.

Below 2 press article taken from the Marinella site ;

http://www.marinellanapoli.it/eng/stile.asp

Elisabetta La Scala
MARINELLA


Thousands of ties are produced and of this only four are ever the same. Three hundred different patterns and colours are made available every week to customers. This tiny little shop has for almost a hundred years served the aristocracy, nobility, politicians, businessmen, and show people around the world. The Marinella tradition begun in 1914 when Don Eugenio Marinella decided to bring a little bit of England to his shop in Naples, This tradition has been carried on by his son Luigi and now by his grandson Maurizio.
Oscar Wilde once said that a well-knotted-tie is the first important step in the life of a man. How old were you when you learnt to tie your first cravat?

It all came naturally to me. I first entered the shop at the age of 8 and I would spend a lot time here with my grandfather and father and that's when I received my first tie.


Are you involved more in the production of the ties or the management of the company?

A bit of everything. I don't just design the ties, I spend time selling, dealing with the customers on a personal level and running the company.


When did Marinella decided to limit its production only to ties?

Initially shirts and bow-ties were produced in our workshop. We stopped producing shirts about fifteen years ago because of lack of space while the demand for bow-ties decreased as fashion change, but bow-ties are still part of our production.


What does fashion dictate in ties today?

The standard 9.5 cm tie has always existed. Up until two years ago it was fashionable to wear very wide heavy ties but now that has changed and ties are back to bee 9 to 8.5 cm wide.


What about knots?

There are several varieties depends on the collar. Often prominent collars with two buttons required a knot which fits precisely in that space. On the other hand there are very small collars for men who are not excessively tall such as the Japanese and as a consequence cannot wear ties that are too large. One must never forget that the tie is an accessory which must meet the needs of the clients that is why it is our job to advise our clients adequately.


Which ties should a gentleman wear?

At Marinella we have ready-to-wear and made-to-measure ties. The customer with our help chooses the fabric, the length, the width and the lining of each tie. We have a range of six possibilities in the choice of lining based on the choice of fabric for each tie.


Do you buy all the fabrics in England?

Yes we do. It is family tradition. Even though some areas of Italy produce excellent fabrics I still carry on my grandfather's tradition of travelling to Kent in England every two months where our fabrics are printed based on Marinella designs.


How much British influence and how much Neapolitan influence is there in the final product?

Marinella is totally Neapolitan from the original design to the finished product.


How are your accessories distributed?

Our more established customers tend to order by phone. We hold showings in the best hotels in major Italian cities, where customers can choose which precious silks their ties will be made from. In these situations all the customers tend to help the new ones in their choice.


How many ties should a gentleman have?

Twenty is the ideal number. Ten should be in fine delicate prints, four monochrome, one dark-blue, a couple striped and a couple in wool, Most people have about thirty or forty. Some of our clients have about three or four hundred but in the end only four or five are always worn.
Which are your favourites?

To be honest I don't have many. We Marinella never take anything from the shop. The customer get first choice in fabric design and pattern. We usually wear the ones that are slightly faulty and which can't be sold.


Ties always seem to be the ideal gift. Is that so wrong?


A tie is a very personal object. It reflects one's character and state of mind. For this reason if one really wants to give a tie as a gift, it is best choose a traditional pattern and fabric to be on the safe side.


Have you ever thought of opening other branches of Marinella?

We have thought about it but the mere thought that our customers have to deal with a virtually unknown shop assistant does not comply with the tradition laid down by my grandfather. Marinella means personal attention!



THE TIE: RULES TO FOLLOW
- The perfect tie should measure between 8.5 and 9.5 cm at its widest point
- The perfect knot should be neither too tight nor too loose. The tie should be undone and hung to eliminate creases.
- The perfect tie should be made out of the right fabric: silk jacquard for the regimental, a lighter silk for prints and more elegant models. For casual winter fashion stripes or tartans in wool.
- The right tie for the right occasion. For day-wear light colours and prints, for evening-wear dark colours or tones are a must.
- A tie should always be chosen by he who is going to wear it. Advice should never be given on the choice nor should it be given as a gift. The choice should be spontaneous without much thought given to the action.
- In the choice however certain rules apply. Garish prints and patterns are to be avoided, as are ties with only a central pattern and those that are totally anonymous.
- A tie is also a reflection of one's personality. The choice of colour and the right pattern is important. Little dots, squares and diagonal stripes in not more than two or at the most three different colours could be considered appropriate.
- The perfect tie should not compete with the suit or the shirt. It should be darker than the shirt but more intense than the jacket. Colours to be avoided: pea green, canary yellow, bright red and baby pink. It is safer to choose burgundies or Bordeaux, dark reds, greens and browns.
- Elegance and inherent good sense are the rules to follow when trying to choose the right tie to go with the right shirt. It is best to avoid a heavily patterned tie on a checked shirt or a striped tie on a striped shirt under a patterned jacket.
- It is also best to avoid in the name of elegance and refinement a matching tie and breast-pocket handkerchief. A totally coordinated look is not an optimum choice.




ENRICA FLORES D'ARCAIS
Made to measure silk ties



MARINELLA THE ART OF FINE DETAILS


by ENRICA FLORES D'ARCAIS
PHOTOGRAPHY BY LORENZO CAPELLINI

In Piazza Vittoria in the heart of Naples there is a quaint little shop furnished in mahogany which sells silk ties, made by Maurizio Marinella the world's most renowned tie-maker and his staff. Looking out from this elegant gentlemen's outfitter we can see the beautiful Villa Comunale with its luxurious palm trees and beyond this the sea-front and crystal blue waters.

It may be possible to run into Mr. Bush or Mr Gorbaciov while walking through the centre of Naples, the reason being they are there is not to attend an international meeting of Heads of State, but most likely because they are going to Marinella to buy their ties. Mr Gorbaciov prefers the colour red but doesn't disdain blue while Mr Bush prefers red ties to add a touch of colour to his often grey suits. Other famous people such as Fred Astaire, the Kennedys, the Rockefellers, François Mitterand, Mr Major and also Italian politicians and business man such as Mr Cossiga, Mr Berlusconi, Gianni Agnelli and Pietro Barilla, have all been outfitted by Marinella.
Why Marinella... because at Marinella ties are made-to-measure and gentlemen who seek elegance and refinement want the best just as they want the best when choosing a made-to-measure suit.


THE SCENT OF SUIT
The family business with his little shop on the sea-front looking out on to Capri and Mount Vesuvius was founded in 1914 by Eugenio Marinella, grandfather of Maurizio who now runs the business. Walking through the entrance of this tiny shop across the marble floor one is immediately inebriated by the scent of silk and waxed wood. The original décor is still there as is the leather armchair where the Prince of Savoia used to sit while conversing with Eugenio Marinella. "It is the sum of details which creates elegance and refinement" is what he used to say to his clients, and what his grandson still believes today. Maurizio says "We produce 110 ties a day all hand-made and all made-to-measure. Our customers choose the fabric here, measurements are taken and written in a little diary then the lining which is closely matched with the fabric is chosen by the customer. As a result the ties are all exactly the same weight and in no more than three days the tie is ready". Maurizio glancing at our photographer with a knowing expression says "For example, this gentleman's tie could have been at least 20 centimetres longer...."


COLLARS AND CHEMISETTES
It is with obvious pride that Maurizio Marinella who since November 1994 runs the shop, tells us how this little shop began: "At the beginning of this century my grandfather founded the family business with only a little money and a great desire to work. At first there was a coffee shop here called "Il Caffettuccio" where people used to stop after horse-back-riding on the beach. The aristocracy and well-to-do would stop here so my grandfather thought this would have been the ideal place to set up a business, something new and original for the Neapolitans. So he began to import from England and the first to do so in Italy products such as Penhaley and Floris cologne and rainwear by Aquascutum. Shirts were also hand-made for the gentlemen of the Neapolitan nobility who were about to marry. The future groom had to have according to tradition twenty-four shirts, good quality under garments, ties and other accessories in his wardrobe. Shirts had a "Sparaccio" with a starched chemisette which nowadays is no longer in use. My grandfather's housekeepers were experts when it came to starching and ironing collars and chemisettes. We stopped producing shirts fifteen years ago because the shop was becoming a little to small. Since then we have concentrated our production on ties alone.

NEW FABRICS WEEKLY
Maurizio learnt the art of making ties when he was a child. From the age of three he would go with his grandfather to the shop and as a consequence became familiar with all the phases of production. Maurizio goes to Kent in England five times a year to choose the fabrics. "My grandfather used to work with the fabric makers who are still our silk suppliers, that is why I know them very well. Out of a cut of silk we make four ties we only need 1m 30cm of fabric for each different type of silk. We have exclusive rights to these fabrics and that is one of our primary concerns". The exclusive right to these fabrics and the fact that the ties are made-to-measure are of utmost important to Marinella. This is why politicians buy their ties from him, it is almost impossible to come across a political rival wearing the same time. "We do not have a summer or a winter collection, we have a weekly collection. Each week we have new fabrics which are totally different to those of the week before".

OLD FRIENDS
It is eleven in the morning, Marinella has been open for business for three and a half hours "We open every day at 7.30 a.m. to give gentlemen who are on their way to work the opportunity to glance at the collection or maybe to order a tie. The many customers are served by very kind and very experienced staff. All the fabrics are on show. There are the striped fabrics, the regimentals and the blues with delicate white patterns used for wedding attire. The geometric designs are typical Marinella creations. In winter woollen ties are produced while in the summer silk is the best choice. At Marinella there are other accessories to be found for example high quality men's fragrances, elegant shoes and cuff-links. Scarves, bow-ties and undergarments are made from the same silk fabric. For those who cannot wait three or four days to have a tie made for them the shop has a wonderful selection of ready-made ties. Many clients know Marinella personally and a select few receive a discount on their purchases. A tie costs around 120.000 Lire. There is something for everyone at Marinella and as Maurizio says "Except for the Pope I have made ties for practically everyone".


Only one sewing machine
This tiny twenty square metre shop filled with beautiful fabrics gets smaller and smaller
every day, Marinella suggests we take a look at the workroom .We leave the shop and take a short walk through the hectic and noisy traffic of Naples on this lovely sunny day. We climb up three flights of stairs and find ourselves in a sunny room with a balcony overlooking a courtyard where we can see a beautiful magnolia tree and enormous cacti in terracotta vases. Seated and working in this room are the five women who play a dominating role in the family business .They are deftly working away with scissors, needle and thread and believe it or not only one sewing machine! As we make our presence known, the quiet humming of the sewing machine comes to a halt ,the women look up, smile and immediately get back to work, many ties have to be finished by the end of the day.

Marinella picks up the corner of a piece of flower patterned blue silk and lets it slide slowly through his fingers, feeling it carefully just as a wine connoisseur would taste a vintage wine "The first step is the cutting of the fabric, which is done first thing in the morning as it a procedure which requires the utmost precision. Each client has a particular request, Some want a longer tie, some a shorter and some a wider one. Each tie is carefully lined and each woman has a particular role in the different phases of production. There is only one sewing machine and up to now it has been more than enough".


SPECIALLY TREATED FABRICS
The tendency in fashion today is to wear ties which add the final touch to the total look. Marinella advises not to tighten the knot too much as it damages the fabric. "Some of our clients still wear ties that were made fifty years ago. When ironing it is advisable to put a damp cloth between the tie and the iron". Marinella as if he were about to reveal a secret shows us the new collection. These are specially treated fabrics. Water and wine are not absorbed at all, therefore leaving no spots. "As a result no more spots on ties. Last September the first cuts of these special fabrics arrived". Not having any wine to spill onto the tie, Marinella uses water instead. The water slides away in tiny droplets just as mercury forms tiny droplets. "When our British suppliers came to Naples we took them to a restaurant. We called the waiter and said: - Don't worry just bring us some water, wine, olive oil, coffee and vinegar. - We spilled all these liquids onto the fabrics, everybody was watching us: the fabrics absorbed nothing, they were perfectly clean".
According to Maurizio it is not only in the shops best interest that the fabrics don't spot, "A tie improves with age therefore if it is made of high quality fabric all the better. A tie has its own mystery and character".


Uniqueness and Quality
A gentleman's personality comes through when choosing a tie. "This choice is extremely
personal and the influencing factors are one's character, mood, concentration and enthusiasm. You either know how to choose a tie or you don't. Elegance is an innate quality.
Alberto Moravia was a man who believed that the fine details in one's style of dressing was
Important. He would often wear bright red ties sometimes yellow and rarely blue one saying
that the tie was a mirror to the soul. He was a very vivacious man." Maurizio Marinella just as his father and grandfather before him, wears ties that one does not notice immediately. The most beautiful ties are sold. He says "It pleases me to see a well-made tie, why should I deprive a client of the pleasure of buying it by wearing it myself?"

Marinella is not concerned about advertising, it is not an issue in this successful family
business." We prefer quality and uniqueness above all." Many top fashion names are eager to be associated with the name Marinella. We also have many offers to produce and market our ties on a wide scale but we have always refused. We sell over one thousand ties a week and more than fifty thousand a year, designing them nearly all myself with the help of a computer which the elaborates the basic pattern. I the send the designs to England for the fabric production. All the original designs are stored away in a safe place and sometimes I look through these old pieces for inspiration, particularly those designed before the war. Marinella travels extensively but his ties have never been part of any international fashion show. "Twice a year I go to Milan and to Rome and once a year to Florence. In February for the summer collection and in October for the winter collection. I always stay in the same hotels and my special clients are personally informed so that they can see the new fabrics. Some bring friends and acquaintances. This way we reach the right people ,we maintain a personal touch and an air of exclusiveness. Those who buy from Marinella do so because they understand quality and elegance.
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