Marinella seven-fold tie

[filangieri]

Be aware that Marinella's only core business is tie-making, and that any other gadget that they sell at their shop in the Riviera di Chiaia is not hand-made by Marinella's legendary "sartine napoletane" (female tie-makers) but out-sourced to a variety of local artisans.
The good side of the story is that Maurizio is an extraordinary talent scout, and that almost any gadget with the "E. Marinella - Napoli" label is a flawless, handmade, beautiful item.
Along the years, I accumulated a variety of gorgeous Marinella stuff: wristwatches, sunshades, briefcases, leather portfolios, wallets, perfumes, umbrellas, scarves, pullovers, denim shirts, playing cards, pens, shoes (... actually Aldens, specially made for Marinella), tweed and cachemire caps ... and I'm sure that I left something behind ... !
Back in the 1930's, before Marinella started to focus on tie-making business, my grand father used to have all his bespoke shirts made, washed and ironed by Marinella's ladies.
My father told me that his father's Marinella shirts had an extended back with button-holes, and that the front-bottom of the shirt had buttons, intended to be fastened to the back extension to provide tension and to prevent the shirt from ever "bagging out" of the belt line.

[manicturncoat]

I imagine a self tipped seven fold would be redundant.

[dopey]

From the way the edge is rolled, I would guess that the striped tie is the seven-fold.

I place the same bet for the same reason. Seven fold or not, it has a rolled edge and is not tipped. If you told me there were two, I would add the light blue, second from the left. This one also appears to have a rolled edge but I am less certain.

[SilkCity]

I'm with manton on this--looks very much like the (authentic, unlined) 7's that I get from
Finollo.

[Costi]

Caro Filangieri, you may well be right, I don’t know what Maurizio Marinella thinks of his seven-fold ties. However, owning both “normal” and seven-fold Marinella ties, all I can say is that the seven-fold is less stiff, heavier, feels better in hand and makes for a better knot than the medium-lined tie. It is a “specialty” item, not necessarily everyone’s favourite or the most traditional type (not at all, actually!). I also like the unlined ties, which make for a very thin knot (le sfoderate).

Uppercase, the seven-fold ties are, indeed, as you say, in a separate drawer and usually not in plain view - but downstairs, close at hand and they certainly did nothing to induce the idea that it wouldn't be the most fortunate choice.

Browsing through Marinella’s website I came across the following passage in the “history” section:
“Other evidence of some sort of neck attire can be found in Roman History. Here observing the sculptured reliefs on Trajan’s Column Roman soldiers can be seen wearign a type of scarf around their necks under their battle uniform. A practice which was probably adopted during the campaign in Dacia where it was particularly cold.”

The Italian version of the site reads on:

“[…] Altri soldati invece sono rappresentati con questo fazzoletto semplicemente annodato al collo. E’ plausibile che I soldati romani abbiano ereditato questo accessorio proprio dalle popolazioni della Dacia, utilizzandolo probabilmente per ripararsi dal clima particolarmente rigido. Si ritiene che in seguito alle campagne in Dacia l’uso di questo fazzoletto da annodare al collo si sia diffuso tra i Romani, non solo tra i militari, ma anche tra i contadini.” {*}

{*} To resume, it states that it is likely the Roman soldiers took the habbit of wearing scarves around their necks from the local population of Dacia (which had to cope with harsh winters - it still does), then it disseminated among peasants, too.

Dacia is nothing but present-day Romania, the territory bordered by the arch of the Carpathian Mountains, the Black sea and the Danube. The actual population of Romania is the direct result of the mix between the local population in Dacia of 2000 years ago and the conquering Roman soldiers lead by Traiano. Could it be that the ancestors of the Romanians are at the very origin of the modern tie? Flattering thought…

Here is the elusive picture again (I hope this time it stays put):

[dopey]

Costi:

I was unsure when I made my first reply, but I have checked your photo and compared it with some of the true seven folds and four folds that I have at home. I believe your tie is really a four-fold or a hybrid six-fold. I would need to see both sides open to tell which, or you can simply count the actual folds or creases. My Kiton “seven folds” are really six-folds and I suspect the Marinella is folded the same way.

Regardless of nomenclature, it is a beautiful tie.

[Costi]

dopey, you can see more pictures of the tie (both ends fully opened included) in my album in the Photojournal. I see 3 perfectly visible creases on each side, which account for 3 "folds" plus the central panel = 7. However, as you very well said, it's not arithmetics that counts, but the beauty of the thing and the skill involved in making it.

[dopey]

dopey, you can see more pictures of the tie (both ends fully opened included) in my album in the Photojournal. I see 3 perfectly visible creases on each side, which account for 3 "folds" plus the central panel = 7. However, as you very well said, it's not arithmetics that counts, but the beauty of the thing and the skill involved in making it.

That is a six fold. A seven-fold has seven creases. The pattern is also different. My digital camera has broken or I would post a photo for you.

[Costi]

I stand corrected, dopey -- 6-fold, 4-fold, anything BUT 7-fold this Marinella tie (sold as "settepieghe") seems to be I am beginning to doubt whether it is a tie at all !
I would be very grateful if you could post a picture of what you are describing - sometime in the future, after you get your camera mended. My imagination is regrettably unable to visualize how a symetrical object could have an impair number of creases (no. of folds = no. of creases + 1). I am doubtlessly no expert in tie design and I am very interested in learning more about it.

[dopey]

I stand corrected, dopey -- 6-fold, 4-fold, anything BUT 7-fold this Marinella tie (sold as "settepieghe") seems to be I am beginning to doubt whether it is a tie at all !
I would be very grateful if you could post a picture of what you are describing - sometime in the future, after you get your camera mended. My imagination is regrettably unable to visualize how a symetrical object could have an impair number of creases (no. of folds = no. of creases + 1). I am doubtlessly no expert in tie design and I am very interested in learning more about it.

The fold is not symmetrical. That is the key, and how the first big fold is handles is what distinguishes the best version I have seen (Talbott) from most others. The best version is folded so that the blade of the tie has a full piece of material, from edge to edge, under it. I don’t expect you to understand what I just said as rereading it cannot and I was the author. I have a digital scanner, and can probably get that to show what I mean. Look back here after Monday night.

[dopey]

I stand corrected, dopey -- 6-fold, 4-fold, anything BUT 7-fold this Marinella tie (sold as "settepieghe") seems to be I am beginning to doubt whether it is a tie at all !
I would be very grateful if you could post a picture of what you are describing - sometime in the future, after you get your camera mended. My imagination is regrettably unable to visualize how a symetrical object could have an impair number of creases (no. of folds = no. of creases + 1). I am doubtlessly no expert in tie design and I am very interested in learning more about it.

The fold is not symmetrical. That is the key, and how the first big fold is handled is what distinguishes the best versions I have seen (Talbott) from most others. The best version is folded so that the blade of the tie has a full piece of material, from edge to edge, under it. In other words, looking from the front, there is no fold line behind the blade. I don’t expect you to understand what I just wrote as rereading it, I cannot. And I was the author. I have a digital scanner and can probably get that to show what I mean. Look back here after Monday night.

[T4phage]

Here is an unlined 7 fold from Marinella. dopey, both sides open

[Costi]

Marvellous tie, T! Very illustrative of the 7-fold principle, too (at least as understood by Marinella): the same 6 creases resulting in 7 blades. The only (otherwise natural) difference from its lined sister is that the innermost fins overlap along the median line of the tie, giving more fullness (which would be too much with the lined version). It only comes to prove how much thought is given by a talented artisan to every aspect of his creation, adapting a general principle to the specific requirements to which every new element gives rise.

[uppercase]

Well, it's obvious that Loungers know their ties dead on sight!



Left to right: 1) a 7 fold by Rubinacci, 2) a "sfoderata" - partially lined tie - a la Rubinacci , 3) a 7 fold made for me in Florence and 4) the standard, self tipped Marinella.



The tips are not symetrical:



A close up of the Rubinacci interpretation of 7 fold:




And here's an example of what I believe is called a double 4 fold (Kiton):

[preobrazhensky]

Filangieri wrote:
"My father told me that his father's Marinella shirts had an extended back with button-holes, and that the front-bottom of the shirt had buttons, intended to be fastened to the back extension to provide tension and to prevent the shirt from ever "bagging out" of the belt line."

I read that Sinatra had his shirts made this way too. I can see the logic, if I am understanding this right, but surely it would make certain bathroom procedures very tedious, and certain stretches potentially injurious!