Black brogue

"The brute covers himself, the rich man and the fop adorn themselves, the elegant man dresses!"

-Honore de Balzac

Costi
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:18 pm

alden wrote: An oxford with tooling is best worn with city suits that have a bit of texture like flannels or worsted herringbones. The step down in crispness and clean lines goes along with the step down in formality. Think of Windsor wearing his suede shoes with chalked flannels. For men who wear tweed or tweed-like suits to town, a brogued oxford is a good way to go as well.
Thank you for your enlightening response - I see my own thoughts did not stray too far from what you explained above: a shoe for grey tweeds, flannels and more roughly finished or country-inspired worsteds (herringbones) - therefore not a business shoe to wear with plain worsteds. A town shoe for leisure, perhaps where a brown town shoe would not accord with the colours of the suit and a plain or captoe black oxford would be too "formal" or business-like for the rest of the outfit.
Perhaps there are other kinds of tooling that can be applied to a black oxford to make it less formal, that are less resemblant of the full brogue with its wingtip, such as this:
Image
storeynicholas

Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:38 pm

That's a fine looking shoe Costi - does it have blind welts?
NJS
Costi
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:01 pm

Old RTW Bally, no welt. But it's the particular tooling on a black town oxford that I meant to illustrate.
storeynicholas

Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:16 pm

Still, it's a nice shape.
NJS
Costi
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Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:37 pm

Thank you - yes, an elongated last.
storeynicholas

Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:50 pm

Costi wrote:Thank you - yes, an elongated last.
Years ago, I saw some bespoke shoes shaped like this and they had blind welts - like a pump - to add to the stream-lined look.
NJS
Sir Henry
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:26 pm

late to this topic, but.....

Black brogues are one of the nicest looking shoes known to man. l couldn't image how good black shell cordovan longwings must be.

Jordan Marc wrote:Hmm, first I ever heard of anyone disliking brogues, let alone hating them. The first pair of bespoke shoes I commissioned John Lobb to make me were full brogue lace-ups in black box calf. Among other shoes ordered subsequently were several pairs of brogues in doeskin suede.
Be it brogue cap, semi-brogue, full brogue or even a two-toned spectator, a man without a good number of brogues in his wardrobe might as well pad around barefoot like Frodo.

JMB
Bravo old boy. Bravo!
storeynicholas

Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:57 pm

Sir Henry wrote:late to this topic, but.....

Black brogues are one of the nicest looking shoes known to man. l couldn't image how good black shell cordovan longwings must be.

Jordan Marc wrote:Hmm, first I ever heard of anyone disliking brogues, let alone hating them. The first pair of bespoke shoes I commissioned John Lobb to make me were full brogue lace-ups in black box calf. Among other shoes ordered subsequently were several pairs of brogues in doeskin suede.
Be it brogue cap, semi-brogue, full brogue or even a two-toned spectator, a man without a good number of brogues in his wardrobe might as well pad around barefoot like Frodo.

JMB
And live in an underground dwelling?
NJS
Bravo old boy. Bravo!
radicaldog
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Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:56 am

A slight digression. What about oxfords with tooling but without extra layers of leather (excuse the imprecise terminology)? For example:

http://www.shoes.shoppingsection.co.uk/ ... gory_Code=

Do they have a place in classically attired man's wardrobe?
marcelo
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Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:32 pm

radicaldog wrote:A slight digression. What about oxfords with tooling but without extra layers of leather (excuse the imprecise terminology)? For example:

http://www.shoes.shoppingsection.co.uk/ ... gory_Code=

Do they have a place in classically attired man's wardrobe?
The model at issue is a „wholecut“. It works well with some discrete brogueing at the tip. A wholecut looks less formal than usual oxfords. But I have the impression that a black wholecut – regardless of brogueing – does not have much appeal. I would be glad to hear further comments on the aesthetics of wholecuts.
radicaldog
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Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:07 pm

Thanks for the informative response, Marcelo.

My impression is that a wholecut is certainly less formal than a plain captoe oxford (or even a completely plain one, i.e. a blucher on an oxford last, if that makes sense), but somewhat more formal than a conventional tooled oxford (i.e. one with extra layers of leather). Would you (or anyone else) agree?

Also, it seems to me that wholecuts are somewhat more frivolous, in a way that's perhaps more Italian or French rather than British. In fact I think they feature quite prominently in Berluti's repertoire, if I'm not mistaken.
marcelo
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Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:13 am

One thing interesting I have once read about wholecuts is that they are a cordwainer’s nightmare: since the shoe is cut out of a single piece of leather, a lot of material is wasted if something goes wrong during the cutting process. Maybe it is something like a cutter driving his shear on the wrong side of an expensive piece of cloth.
NCW
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Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:39 pm

With formal shoes (patent) a wholecut is in fact more formal, a cap being a 'business' or 'workday' feature, which is more formal than countrified settings, but less than formalwear.
Costi
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Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:04 pm

I think black and wholecut is not such a terrible association, since the slim, simple line works well with the dark, sober colour.
Image
They are not really formal shoes, simple though they are, and not quite business shoes, either. Therefore I wear them mostly during my leisure time, whenever an evening black shoe is required.
My shoemaker tells me that they are indeed relatively more difficult to cut and make. He also tells me that he can do a "true" wholecut (i.e. completely seamless, unlike the usual wholecut which has a seam at the heel or offset inwards), but it takes a special quality of leather which lends itself to the amount of shaping required. I hope he or I can find that leather one day...
Last edited by Costi on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Costi
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Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:09 pm

radicaldog wrote:A slight digression. What about oxfords with tooling but without extra layers of leather (excuse the imprecise terminology)? For example:

http://www.shoes.shoppingsection.co.uk/ ... gory_Code=

Do they have a place in classically attired man's wardrobe?
Oxfords with a small amount of tooling, such as a toe medallion, certainly have a place in my wardrobe:

Image
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