Patch pockets

[Melcombe]

At the back of my mind since seeing Gary Cooper's jacket http://www.collectingclassichollywood.c ... rever.html via viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11449, I have been harbouring a desire for a patch-pocketed tweed change coat / sports jacket.

This sort of thing :


Today I took the plunge and visited the venerable Mr P, my tailor, to explain myself, or at least to try.

He is a great enthusiast for Dugdales cloths and their Saxony bunch (144?) has a very attractive - to my eye - small blue and grey windowpane on an olive background. We went through the necessary features fairly quickly not least because I rarely depart from my 'usual' 2B-SB centre vent, but on asking for patch pockets x3, he gave me a serious look and politely enquired "are you sure?" which did make me rather laugh out aloud. He explained that no-one had asked him for PP's since about the 70's and even then they were regarded as being a bit old fashioned.

I have to say for my part, I really hadn't given them much thought until lately, but I do think they are attractive not least because they don't really interrupt the silhouette in quite the way that some pocket flaps can.

Id be interested to know if anyone has had a similar response from a tailor. I have to say I really am looking forward to the end result but have been advised that I can change my mind after the first fitting!

[Mark Seitelman]

They are not "old fashioned". I have ordered them many times from all of my clothiers without a word of protest.

Perhaps your tailor is a bit weak on making pockets? Perhaps he had a problem with a prior order?

Two disadvantages of patch versus regular pockets with a flap:

1. The flap adds an extra bit of security to prevent keys or a cell phone from falling out, such as when being seated in a car.

2. The open pocket can get caught on an armrest or another trap.

Good luck.

[Concordia]

They are considered a bit more casual-- at least, less likely to be used in a practical garment. They can also create a bit more clutter on the surface of a jacket, which may or may not be a good thing. You see it on English college blazers.

I've had a few linen suits made with 3 pockets, and even tried a DB blazer that way. More, recently, however, I ordered a pair of sport jackets with 2 patch, 1 welted as usual. With one cashmere jacket in particular, I felt that a patch breast pocket might sag a bit over time and not add to the charm of the whole. These are definitely leisure wear items-- cocktail parties, not-quite-formal dinners, brunches, etc. For traveling or normal business wear, I'd get the flaps.

[hectorm]

I do think they are attractive not least because they don't really interrupt the silhouette in quite the way that some pocket flaps can.... I´d be interested to know if anyone has had a similar response from a tailor.

From an alternative point of view, I believe that you could say that patch pockets do interrupt the silhouette more than any pockets that are cut into the garment (with or without flaps) because they carry many more substantial vertical and horizontal lines.
When I have brought up the choice of patch pockets for a couple of sports coats with my current tailor, his only comments were regarding how those "rudimentary" pockets would render the jackets more informal and how he could adjust the overall structure and tailoring to make it more balanced and harmonious.

[davidhuh]

Id be interested to know if anyone has had a similar response from a tailor. I have to say I really am looking forward to the end result but have been advised that I can change my mind after the first fitting!

Dear Melcombe,

none of the tailors I'm using ever made such a comment. I generally use 3 styles on sports coats: flapped, patched and the mezza luna. Patch pockets are especially great in making a coat more informal (as Hectorm already said) or to "break" a more delicate tweed or linen cloth into something a bit more rustic.

Cheers, David

[Scot]

Nothing wrong with patch pockets. They can sag a bit. One tailor I use has addressed this by fusing the patches, another by creating a faux patch with a pocket bag as per a normal pocket.

[Melcombe]

Dear Melcombe,

none of the tailors I'm using ever made such a comment. I generally use 3 styles on sports coats: flapped, patched and the mezza luna. Patch pockets are especially great in making a coat more informal (as Hectorm already said) or to "break" a more delicate tweed or linen cloth into something a bit more rustic.

Cheers, David

Thanks David

I think that's the look I'm trying to capture : something less than formal, a coat to reach for without too much forethought. Im also anticipating not too much structure, but experience on that aspect means I shall leave that to my tailor to judge having regard to the weight of the cloth (15oz?) - I dont want it to be a suit of armour, but nor am I after a tweed cardigan.

I have also ordered a pair of dark charcoal flannels at the same time, but anticipate the coat could readily match almost any style of trouser (OK maybe not those Hammer Pants things ... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_pants).

I think that Gary Cooper's version does actually look fairly formal, with a tie and pocket square, but I don't doubt he could have dressed up a coal sack.

I certainly take the point re pocket 'gape' but I'm not planning to carry much beyond a pocket square.

I'm rather hoping that the cloth will age well and that the coat will acquire good 'wabi-sabi' over the years. I shall also be asking for swelled edges as done on an earlier heavy tweed jacket to very good effect.

I never like to ask for a rush job so we didn't discuss timescale particularly, but I shall post photos of the end result.

[VRaivio]

Patch pockets are more eye-catching than your average flapped or jetted ones, and thus a bit more informal. You don't really see them on formalwear, to be sure, so it is best to leave them off from your smartest dark suits, too. If you decide in their favour, just be sure not to load them up with heavy things for long periods. Cloth does stretch and the thinner ones will sag.

[Melcombe]

First fitting yesterday - and one very valuable lesson learnt : patch pockets and window-pane check make uneasy bedfellows.

So - at the risk of convincing my tailor that I am incapable of making my mind up on anything, I called him this morning and have asked to revert to my 'usual' slanted, flapped sides and welted breast pocket.

I have to say this has all come as something of an agonising decision - I really had set my heart on the informality of the patch pocket : it really looks excellent on Mr Cooper (wouldn't it ever...) in the gunclub check, but the window-pane just didn't look 'right' somehow.

The White Rose saxony is lovely -



I'm very happy with that. But I think PP's will have to wait until something plainer appears on the wish-list.

Oh, this bespoke lark. Just too much choice!

[hectorm]

First fitting yesterday - and one very valuable lesson learnt : patch pockets and window-pane check make uneasy bedfellows.

Melcombe, I´m not sure whether the uneasiness you mention comes from the pattern matching or from having added vertical and horizontal lines created by the stitches and the cloth edges. From my experience with patch pockets I think there shouldn´t be any problem with the window pane matching on the breast pocket. The side pockets are another story, particularly if your jacket is cut with a dart.

[Melcombe]

the uneasiness you mention comes from ... having added vertical and horizontal lines created by the stitches and the cloth edges.

This.

Despite the pattern matching very well, I think the additional lines were the issue. The pockets (especially the side pockets seemed very prominent indeed and appeared to float a quarter inch above the the fabric of the jacket itself, rather than lend to the svelte / unobtrusive pockets I had intended.

I do have an old blazer of my uncles with patch pockets, in a navy plan weave, which has just the apearance I was after. Perhaps the plain-ness of the cloth helps?

I'm sure I shall be returning to this concept at some point in the future (maybe a remake of the blazer?), but for the moment, Ive added to my tailors workload, not least dismantling the coat to stick a welt breast pocket in. He's too polite to pull a face at me - I think I'd better get him a decent bottle of Christmas cheer this year...

[hectorm]

Despite the pattern matching very well, I think the additional lines were the issue.

I have always had another issue with patch pockets and I´m not sure whether it´s because of my fastidious nature or if it´s something other LL members also feel.
I believe pocket squares do not look as good in patch pockets as they do in welt pockets. Maybe it´s the more apparent bulk or maybe it´s too much complication on one´s chest. For someone like me, whose default mode is wearing a pocket square, this presents a small additional preoccupation.

[Frederic Leighton]

I actually prefer the way pocket squares look in patch pockets! Like you, Hectorm, I'm also fastidious, altough in my case this is about the shape of the pocket itself. Once I like the shape, I really like the way the pocket looks with a square in it.

With patch pockets I also have an additional way of using pocket squares: entirely inside the pocket, showing only by the shape the square invisibly imparts to the pocket. I had a suit coat recently made with 4 patch pockets (inspired again by a 1910's fashion plate and made in donegal tweed without evident pattern); this is the way I usually wear it.

[Scot]

I have to say that I am unconvinced by the combination of patch pockets and tweed. The hacking pockets that Melcombe has opted for are entirely appropriate for his choice of fabric, and classically English. Looking through photographs of Windsor, and other British gents of the same vintage, I could find no examples of patch pockets on tweed (doubtless someone will turn something up to prove me wrong). Patch pockets seemed to be confined to summer weight garments, which, for me, is how it should be. Of course this is a highly personal view, and we shouldn't be bound by the past, but whilst I have patch pockets on Linen and Freso I won't be getting them on tweed any time soon.

[Frederic Leighton]

Looking through photographs of Windsor, and other British gents of the same vintage, I could find no examples of patch pockets on tweed (doubtless someone will turn something up to prove me wrong). Patch pockets seemed to be confined to summer weight garments, which, for me, is how it should be.

I have hundreds of photos of patch pockets on tweed from the first half of the 20th century.