Pre-shrinking fabric

[Merc]

From a different topic:
old henry wrote: "Yes ,, I shrink everything.. Even pre-shrunk cloth. If the mills do shrink they do not do enough. Everything - in my opinion - should be shrunk and shrunk good. The old men I started with in Syracuse even shrunk the thread. "

i have a question or two. i have never been clear whether most suiting fabric is pre-shrunk.
(i also presume a good worsted changes less than a flannel, although it's been my experience that flannel stretches as much or more than shrinks but that's another story)

when you say you pre-shrink everything--do you actually go soak your suiting cloth in water-or something else? and then how do you dry it--just air? you do the same with the canvas components? what about synthetic linings? do you notice differential shrinking between components. do most lesser tailors not pre-shrink anything?

this may not be pertinent at all, but as an aside --in terms of shirts not suits, one shirtmaker told me ne never pre-washes clothes, because it is easier and better to cut a shirt not pre-washed but then you really have to know how the shrinkage allowance differs different shirtings/weaves. Another shirtmaker who i used told me he generally doesnt pre-wash, but he generally does pre-wash the cloth for my shirts, (for some specific fit reason).

[old henry]

Merc, I believe that shirt makers take into account the shrinkage when they cut. I shrink every component of a suit. I pay no attention to "Preshrunk" or "Ready for the needle". I shrink lining too. To shrink cloth I first lay out the cloth on the floor I then cover the cloth with a wet shrink cloth-- a few old sheets sewn together or a 4 or 5 yard cut of muslin. I then gently , loosely roll the the cloth with the wet shrink cloth --roll them together with a cloth board.. I then place it in a plastic bag so that it will not dry out. Leave it over night. The heavier the weight the wetter the cloth. For My heavy tweeds - after I roll it with the wet cloth I then take cups of water and soak the cloth good. Leave it over night . Next morning unroll the cloth and let it dry on the floor. If you hang the cloth to dry the weight will streatch it while it dries and not allow it to settle in. There is no better smell than a wet heavy tweed drying.

[Merc]

i would bet that you are among the last of the mohicans.
I am nearly certain that the typical tailor does this extra step and i wonder if the Savile Row shops or the top-end makers in Manhattan take this step anymore.
Of course, i would be very confident -with your suits- that there's never an unpleasant surprise after a cleaning.


btw,
I agree on the shirts-- it seems to be (although not 100%) a general consensus among shirtmakers that they build a shrinkage allowance into their cut, based on cloth type and weave as opposed to pre-shrinking.

[old henry]

Merc , Thank you for saying that. Raphael is one of the only other tailors that I know of to shrink cloth and he is now, sadly ,retired. I am sure there are others . As for unpleasant surprises - your comment is timely. - I have just had to shift down the sleeve notches and replace the collars on two suits which I delivered 2 months ago. These are the "Making a New Coat for an Old Customer" suits. I started them last February. Whew !.. I also have to raise the armholes on a natural shoulder tweed recently delivered. I cut them too "quick". But neither the result of not shrinking. Frank

[Greger]

In the old days the technology of the weavers was simpler. Today what do they do? Are they much better at it than the past? Do they have moisture sensers that say when the cloth is ready? Whereas, in the past they were guessing? What all goes into the cloth that never did before such as fire retardents and so on? The old tailors said that cloth could be over shrunk. And there are tailors that say that today. From one weaver to another is it different? What was needed in the past may not be needed today. Hanging onto the past may not be working today as it did in the past. Some of what I have read about preshinking, for several decades, one tailor might preshrink a little and another much much more, so even back then who was right? Do cleaners use water, except for pressing? In a wet climate preshrinking might be more important. If it is over shrunk then a tailor would have to use extra seams to create 3-D garments. Anyway, in todays world with all the gadgetry that exist now that the cloth finishers would have this down to exact science. And then there are the small time weavers who wouldn't have all technology and gadgets that the big timers have, so the science of shrinking would be less for the small timers.

As you can see there are a lot of questions to wonder about. And cloth that has sat on the shelf for many years probably needs some water. So the questions go on, how much and when? Nowadays I would like to hear what weavers have to say about it.

[Merc]

a lot of interesting questions Greger

although i cant answer much of this, remember one thing: very little of this is precise nor does it have to be. Natural fabrics (and synthetics to a lesser degree) are hygroscopic to varying degrees and they expand and shrink constantly due to changes in dewpoint and relative humidity in the ambient environment, as well as from the wearer. moisture in the air swells fabrics, desert air does the reverse. (i have a table of coefficients of expansion for natural fibers at varying temps and humidities among other things) For example after a super humid summer week, a cold front passing through will affect your clothes, your shoes etc. No one really notices most of the time because the variation is small...but my point on this is approximate is good enough--the fabrics always repsond to their environment even when pre-shrunk. i think the pre-shrinking is an attempt to control damage to the shape or fit of the finished product due to excessive shrinking if the garment gets wet in field conditions. it does not eliminate all changes.

And i think that's what old henry is trying to achieve.

also..dry cleaning is not dry but it is not done with water. for a long time (i can still remember the name and smell) it was done in a liquid called carbon tetrachloride. i think they switched a few decades ago to something called 'perc' a similar organic compound/solvent with a lesser toxicity profile (although still bad enough). now there are newer solvents which are even less harmful but i have no idea what they are. nor would i want to handle them or work in a plant with them.