A Sartorial Crime?

[Tucker Peterson]

In his book The Englishman's Suit, Hardy Amies denounces the use of peaked lapels (what he calls "double breasted revers") on a single breasted suit as "a sartorial crime".

I wondered if this was truly the case? I believe I remember seeing pictures of Mr. Anthony Eden in such an outfit. Is Amies merely opining his taste, or is it just not done? I'm still trying to piece together a sound knowledge of the unwritten, unspoken "Rules", so forgive my ignorance.

Tucker

[culverwood]

I would agree with Hardy Amies that it is a "fashion" and not a classic style but I am sure Sator will have many pictures to prove me wrong.

[storeynicholas]

On single-breasted dinner jackets DB lapels are classic. On a SB lounge suit, they are unusual but hardly a crime - they are not my preference but that is just choice.
NJS

[Sator]

I can give two examples where pointed lapels or double breasted lapels (to use the British English terms) are pretty much standard with a single breasted coat: the dress lounge (nowadays called the dinner jacket), and the morning coat. The dinner jacket is just another type of lounge coat. If lounge coats in general cannot take pointed lapels then dinner jackets can't take them either.

BTW this comes from Whife, London, 1951 (section written by Phillip Dellafera):



It comes from the women's section but he also writes the men's section.

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum

[NCW]

Amies does make some slightly controversial statements at times, for example his insistence that we blow our noses on our pocket squares (or rather, put our handkerchiefs in our breast pockets, and not use pocket squares), while I am sure the habit of 'one for show, one for blow' is reasonably widespread among loungers.

This could be another such comment, based on his (very good) sense of style, but which does not align totally with standard opinion.

[Sator]

In his book The Englishman's Suit, Hardy Amies denounces the use of peaked lapels (what he calls "double breasted revers") on a single breasted suit as "a sartorial crime".

BTW I don't own the book, but does he really talk about 'single breasted suits'? What a dreadfully vague expression as it is unclear what type of suit he means. Some authors do talk about dinner suits for example - yes, there is historic precedent to that! I hope he meant either all lounge coats, only lounge coats as part of a lounge suit, or all single breasted coats in general. Or does he permit pointed lapels on lounge coats provided they are not part of a suit eg sports coats???

If he indeed did mean coats in general, then I would also add that single breasted frock coats commonly took pointed lapels.

[Sator]

Prince Charles in a "single breasted suit" with double breasted lapels:



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[culverwood]

I have no doubt he was referring to lounge suits.

[Sator]

My point is this. All of these single breasted coats may correctly take pointed lapels:

-SB frock coats
-Morning coats
-Dress lounge coats (dinner jackets)

Why is the lounge coat exempt? - the fact that a dinner jacket is a type of lounge coat anyway not withstanding.

The answer may be because a lounge suit is too informal a garment to correctly take pointed lapels, unlike the other listed garments. I certainly agree that the lounge coat in its iteration as a sports coat is too informal to take pointed lapels. However, that does not appear to be his line of argument.

The fact is that even cutters from the 1900's say that their customers that used to order frock coats from them were now ordering lounge coats. The lounge coat has a comparable level of dressiness to the frock coat in its day. For better or for worse, I think that makes the lounge a sufficiently dressy a garment to be able to correctly take pointed lapels.

Nonetheless, I will concede that I prefer that a single breasted pointed lapel lounge coat be part of something a little more formal. I like to wear them with cashmere striped trousers for example. Here is a recent example of mine:







I am much less keen on two and three button lounges with pointed lapels. It think that the same principle should be applied to the lounge as to the morning coat. When the coat has two to three buttons it should take a step lapel, but with the one button model it should take a pointed lapel.



Needless to say the dinner jacket is a one button lounge coat.

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[Tucker Peterson]

The words "A Sartorial Crime" in his book appear in a caption writ beneath an advert for a single-breasted lounge suit offered by an embryonic MTM firm (one could select the fabric, and they would measure, and then a factory of tailors would be turned loose upon one's order. At, if I read English monetary notation correctly, 45 shillings per suit.

Tucker

[storeynicholas]

The words "A Sartorial Crime" in his book appear in a caption writ beneath an advert for a single-breasted lounge suit offered by an embryonic MTM firm (one could select the fabric, and they would measure, and then a factory of tailors would be turned loose upon one's order. At, if I read English monetary notation correctly, 45 shillings per suit.

Tucker

They generally used to be called 'Fifty Shilling Tailors' and, probably, Hardy Amies regarded them as bog-brush end of the market.
NJS

[schneidergott]

Here is an example of a lounge coat or "Sakko" with peak lapels:


By schneidergott, shot with 5MP-9X9 at 2007-12-18

Looks good to me. Here is another one from 1934:


By schneidergott at 2008-10-09


SG

[storeynicholas]

The DB lapel on a SB town lounge suit coat works for me with 1 or 2 buttons but not so much with 3 - looks a little dated, maybe? It possibly wouldn't go on checked tweeds easily either.
NJS

[Cufflink79]

Single breasted peaked lapels are great on suits and dinner jackets. I have even seen a few odd jackets that look good with that style as well.

Notch lapels are for single breasted suits, sportcoats, and blazers only. NEVER on a dinner jacket.

Notch lapels should NEVER EVER be on double breasted jackets either.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[storeynicholas]

Single breasted peaked lapels are great on suits and dinner jackets. I have even seen a few odd jackets that look good with that style as well.

Notch lapels are for single breasted suits, sportcoats, and blazers only. NEVER on a dinner jacket.

Notch lapels should NEVER EVER be on double breasted jackets either.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

Good summary.
NJS