Duke of Windsor's bow tie

"The brute covers himself, the rich man and the fop adorn themselves, the elegant man dresses!"

-Honore de Balzac

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newtom
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Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:34 pm

The Duke of Windsor had an interesting formal bow tie.

Any ideas if it was a special tie, or is it in the knot?

(By the way, a gorgeous velvet smoking jacket with the shawl lapel!)

Apologies that the images are not coming up - what am I doing wrong?!

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[/img]http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3088594ol2.jpg[/img]

Image[/img]
Daedalus
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Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:40 pm

newtom wrote: Image
Image
Image
Right click the image and copy paste url of the image between the .
storeynicholas

Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:51 pm

No it's just an ordinary tie, tied with what was called by Ian Fleming 'Churchillian looseness'. I agree about the shawl collar and lapels - this very picture feature in my book.
NJS
storeynicholas

Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:40 pm

An additional point of interest is that the Windsor and half-Windsor four-in-hand tie knots were not used by the DoW - his ties were puffed up because they were heavily lined.
Will

Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:54 pm

I have one of those bow ties and the darned thing is difficult to tie well as it's so wide.
HappyStroller
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Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:59 am

Interesting to note that HRH's shawl collar had buttonholes, though shawl collar dinner jackets are not supposed to have such holes; and, His had two nicely horizontally-placed ones to boot!
newtom wrote: Image
RWS
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Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:34 pm

HappyStroller wrote:Interesting to note that HRH's shawl collar had buttonholes . . . .
Not unique, just not sensible either historically (the top buttonholes originated in the need to button a coat to the wearer's throat, for protection of the winds and rains of the wild outdoors) or, for me, aesthetically. But that latter consideration, aesthetics, is key, and it will vary from man to man: one reason I've yet to encounter a single other man who's an invariable stylistic guide for me.
JAS
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Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:30 pm

It appears that this is (k)not only tied loosely but more importantly a batwing bow, giving the fat center. Hard to view the smoking jacket and appropriate cigar without subsequent ire for the current ban. JAS
storeynicholas

Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:54 pm

when you say batwing does this denote that the tie is simply straight cut? I agree with what you say about the smoking ban - mentioned elsewhere Churchill - what would he (especially in this context) have made of what modern governments have done with the freedoms he and that generation fought to preserve. I can't imagine even Hitler and Stalin banning smoking - and these recent politicians belly-ache on about 'great western democracy' - they can keep it.
Algernon
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Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:25 pm

I'm not sure about Hitler, but Himmler had a great dislike for smoking, indeed he tried to forbid it. He was also a zealous vegetarian.
storeynicholas

Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:29 pm

Well, the modern poilticians are in very good company then. One cannot even excuse some of them of mass murder on an international scale.
JAS
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Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:34 pm

Correct. The batwing, unlike the butterfly, is cut straight and resembles an oar or a paddle. Believe WC’s polka dots were batwing but I might be mistaken. Charvet still uses this cut, as does Carrot & Gibbs. The extra fabric, which doesn’t seem like much initially, really makes a difference in the bow. Again, not positive that the DoW is sporting one, but the look has the correct DNA. Not to dive into history, but did not Nazi Germany have a very aggressive smoking ban? Anyhow, I am appalled at the nanny state of things but how can one argue since cigars are illegal to purchase? Oh wait, that’s not right…
storeynicholas

Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:14 pm

Yes, I'm quite sure that Churchill's polka dot tie was batwing (thank you for the terminology) and Ian Fleming copied him - they both went to T&A.

Cigars - not illegal to buy YET. The thing that holds them back is the tobacco tax, the loss of which would mean that the poor NHS would be spreading even more filth-bred infections in dirty hospitals. Fortunately, I am out of it (and have been since before the smoking ban) with no intention to return permanently. UK Government now is all about demonstrating control over the law-abiding because the real criminals are beyond control. I appreciate that there are health concerns in relation to over-indulgence in tobacco, but the same goes for anything: too much sugar, salt, even too much exercise. Howover, it is unthinkable that they would ever ban alcohol consumption outside one's own home but I have never come across a heavy smoker who has gone out of control in his car and killed innocent people. But that's the tax again together with the big, well represented interests of the brewers and distillers. Absolutely no reason why there could not have just been the introduction, across the board, of smoking and no- smoking areas and rooms, especially in private clubs. As to the argument that it's all to do with protecting workers' rights - if bar staff don't like smoke-filled bars, find another job or go back to the surfing beaches, I say. Interesting to reflect that Blair and his Babes managed to impose an act of oppression, by banning smoking, that even Himmler (with his influence, personal aversion, not to mention his well-known care for the health of the nation), failed to achieve.
JAS
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Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:43 am

I think many would welcome a selective time machine to place us in serene moments of history. I for one would have enjoyed the Churchill/Fleming/Niven banter at Boodle’s where fine cigars, cognac, and conversation must have flowed. The DoW photo is a sobering reminder of how many indulgences have been shelved for one reason or another. JAS
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