Freedom of expression

[BP45]

Some forums "protect" some artisans from even the mildest criticism--witness this thread on Style Forum: http://66.170.193.77/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonbo ... 9165;st=20. If the cite doesn't work, just go to the style forum and look at the now locked thread concerning Darren Beaman. Beaman now has offical "protected" status. I actually thought the last post was a joke, until I noticed that the thread was in fact locked.

[Cruz Diez]

Dear Sir,

We all advocate freedom of speech, but unfortunately, public discussion boards on the internet are vulnerable to troublemakers who are able to sign in and post under different user names. In this case it seems like the moderator had no other choice. That is, unless he decides to forgo the "open to everyone" nature of his forum. The size of his forum would render the task of reviewing the background of all new (and some old) members insurmountable. We should all be thankful to, and collaborate with, our LL host, who is putting a good deal of effort to avoid these type of problems herein.

Best regards,

Miguel

[T4phage]

I disagree with Miguel's opinion regarding 'censorship' of any posts critical of a 'protected' craftsman. Any person can post under many different usernames, the moderator can easily delete his posts.... what would happen if a longtime poster/member has had difficulties with the craftsman, would his authentic grievances not be allowed airing? Compared to the many many shills and barkers for a craftsman who has a very controversial background are allowed free reign to post and spread his supposed excellence with no counteropinons?

I however agree with Miguel's opinion that we work with the LLmoderators to avoid such problems occuring here.. We should all post and state our opinons honestly, and not have multiple differing opinions between fora.

[BP45]

Miguel,

I agree that public forums are difficult to moderate, and that it is sometimes necessary to ban "troublemakers." But in the case of the Beaman thread, the original poster--Friendlyone--hardly seemed to be a troublemaker, and giving Mr. Beaman "protective status" on that board suggests that the moderator has another agenda, which is preventing knowledgeable comment on Mr. Beaman's work.

Bill

[Alias]

I'm not so eager to jump into the conspiracy theories.

Let J moderate his forum, and let's continue to enjoy our forum.

[Guest]

Sorry Alias, I have to disagree.

This is not conspiracy theory, but is a matter of fact that a person, and a member of LL, has given money in exchange of nil; the answer from SL was to lock the thread, without checking the truth or less of the facts: you can draw your conclusions; instead, I ask everyone who is in contact with mister Beaman to make efforts so that our member can have his money back.

Thank you.

PS
Alias your tailor has improved a lot, please share your pictures with us.

[Alias]

I thought he locked the thread in order to keep "Marc Grayson" off the forum, but maybe I'm not reading enough into it. I'm not going to be quick to point fingers at SF for violating some code of integrity. I'm sure that many of the SF guys already know what Marc Grayson thinks, and we sure don't need reminders, especially from a guy who's supposed to be gone and banned.

And it's not the same tailor, it's a different one. Yes, it's great work!

Edit: It's quite clear from J's last post that the threadlock and protection was to defend Mr. Beaman against unfavorable reviews that could possibly be untrue, especially when coming from Grayson. I'm sure that an honest review, even unfavorable, would be accepted. Leonard Logsdail got lynched over at AAAC, and we sure don't need another guy receiving the same treatment over at SF, thanks to a bunch of "posters" who are in reality one person.

[Guest]

I am not interested in Marc Greyson, I'm interested about a member that deserve his money back.

Alias, you improved a lot as a customer! Please share your work with your artisan, how did you approch and lead his work.

[Alias]

I am not interested in Marc Greyson, I'm interested about a member that deserve his money back.

Alias, you improved a lot as a customer! Please share your work with your artisan, how did you approch and lead his work.

Yeah, but it's kind of hard to tell who's Grayson and who isn't, especially if he's switching IP addresses (which I think he is, in order to circumvent banning, and if J isn't blocking his IP then he should start.) I think that instead of talking dirt behind his back, people who have honest grievances with this decision should send him a polite PM.

Oh, about the tailor, Mr. Min: visited him a couple of times before I decided to commission the suit. He has received overseas training, so he's more familiar with good, classic construction, instead of the cheapo corner-cutting construction used by other "tailors." I first inspected an unfinished jacket from him, and all the signs pointed to "he's good." Shoulder pads were handmade and shaped, chestpieces also, and the padstitching was fine. He cuts a nice, lean silhouette, something many of his customers prefer (and I think that's interesting, since most Korean men like their suits cut loose.) After some deliberation, I decided to take the plunge.

Of course, things didn't go perfectly, and he had to redo the jacket. Still, it was very gracious on his part, because the jacket was fully complete. I was surprised when I came in the next day: I was expecting to pick up the finished suit, and here he was with another basted jacket! It was at no charge. He's a really great guy who takes a lot of pride in his work.

The trousers in the picture I posted in SF aren't perfect; the line near the ankles needs to be improved. However, judging from my trouser fitting today (I ordered a spare), this should be eliminated. Things are looking promising!

The surprising thing is that he charges a lot less than another shop, even if his fabrics aren't as exclusive. I think much of it has to do with rent; the shop is rather small. Still, I believe his handwork to be superior to the other one, but I'll try that other one someday.

[T4phage]

I second the motion put forward by Mr. Giona Granta, calling on on LL members who are in contact with Mr. Beaman to encourage him to refund the deposit made by our member. Come on, one year and not even a first fitting? I know that you can wait for over a year to get delivery of a suit, but not ONE year without a fitting.

Alias, beautiful commission indeed! You should start a new topic "How I worked with an Artisan". Tell us how the conversation went and how the collaboration ensued. It would be a most instructive read. Of course, pictures would greatly help!

Regards,
Jan

[Guest]

Yes, Alias, please put this discussion in another thread, maybe link some pictures, ok?

PS
Already PMed ...

[BenedictSpinola]

One cannot expect a tailor to "get it right" in the eyes of his patron on every single occasion - what matters is how any misunderstandings or errors are dealt with. It would be remiss of a tailor to fail to produce a garment for a first fitting after a year (unless of course the patron agreed to this).

I am sure that many members of the Lounge, especially those less knowledgeable (such as myself) will appreciate both positive and negative commentaries about interactions with artisans. The latter will serve as warnings, be they specific to an individual artisan or generic. What we want to avoid are wanton hatchet jobs.

[Cruz Diez]

Dear LL members,

You all have expressed very valid points, and some supporting facts which I was not aware of.

As upstanding members of the SF I suggest we give the moderator the benefit of the doubt and bring any disagreement with his initial measures as constructive criticism by private email. I gather his actions were made with the best of intentions.

Best regards,

Miguel