Buttonholes

[bond_and_beyond]

Interesting to note that the buttonholes on the lapels of the DoW's suit in the photo look more like what one today would consider "City buttonholes" as opposed to "West End buttonholes" and less elegant / well done than what one would expect from the supreme echelon of English or French tailors today. I have seen the same on vintage SR suits, where the buttonholes seem to be more of an afterthought than they are today.

BB

[aston]

My father's DJ was made by Hawkes and Co of Savile Row in 1946.

The cuff buttonholes are by hand, but the main closure buttonhole in machine made, which struck me as odd when I first noticed it.

Was there a convention that was followed during that period, or is it a random thing?

[bond_and_beyond]

The below 1974 photo of Roger Moore in what I believe is a Douglas Hayward suit shows what seems to me to be a "City buttonhole" despite Hayward being a "West End" tailor (based in Mount St.).

I have seen similar buttonholes (though more crudely done) on vintage Gieves (pre-merger) pieces also.

I would imagine that to a lot of the clientele finishing of this sort was not a priority in the past (SR suits with plastic buttons etc), so perhaps, to a large extent, the nicely done finishing done today by many tailors is actually an improvement on the past?



BB

[Richard3]

I don't think that suit was made by Hayward. It looks like one of his italian tailor Angelo from Rome.

[bond_and_beyond]

I don't think that suit was made by Hayward. It looks like one of his italian tailor Angelo from Rome.

I would defer to fellow member Matt S who is behind bondsuits.com, but I thought that Moore started using Angelo in the late 70s, and that in 1974, which was around the time Man with the Golden Gun was made, Moore was still with Hayward (who indeed made the suits for that film).

BB

EDIT: I realise now that it was Cyril Castle, not Hayward, who made Moore's suits at the time, but I think the main point above still stands. I think it's this suit http://www.bondsuits.com/the-light-cool-grey-suit/

[Richard3]

Yes, that`s the suit!

[Concordia]

It's the start of the 1970s tendency for the clothes to wear him, and not the other way around. Much of that is the filming, of course. You get a lot of scenes where the director obviously yelled "CUT! Get that smudge of dust off Bond's perfectly-pressed white trousers before he climbs into the sewer!" Still, the wider lapels and prominent collar grab more attention than Connery's 1963 wardrobe ever did.

[hectorm]

... "City buttonholes" as opposed to "West End buttonholes" and less elegant / well done than what one would expect from the supreme echelon of English or French tailors today.

High end bespoke tailoring never means necessarily top notch buttonholes. Sometimes you get some marvelous ones, like in the case of Cifonelli. Sometimes you don't even get working sleeve buttonholes, like in the case of A&S.
Those tear drop eyelets, cut -not slashed- open by chisel and hollow punch, reinforced around the edge with a gimp string, and finished by hand with a whole yard of thread per hole, are a rarity nowadays. In the past there were more common I believe, so from my point of view there has not been an improvement on that sense. But great buttonholes are not necessarily a sign of a good cut either. It just means that whoever is making the buttonholes, knows what he or she is doing.
My last tailor (who passed away at the end of 2015 at age 80) used to say that if everybody requested him to make 7 or 8 buttonholes by hand in each suit, he would have had to charge something like 300 or 400 dollars more elevating the price of the garment about 10%. Fortunately not everybody cared about that kind of craftsmanship, so he could do it as a special treat for those clients who did care.

[couch]

My last tailor (who passed away at the end of 2015 at age 80) used to say that if everybody requested him to make 7 or 8 buttonholes by hand in each suit, he would have had to charge something like 300 or 400 dollars more elevating the price of the garment about 10%. Fortunately not everybody cared about that kind of craftsmanship, so he could do it as a special treat for those clients who did care.

That confirms my experience, hectorm, at least on my jackets from Poole. I mentioned at fittings for my first suit that I wanted a "carnation"-length lapel buttonhole, and pointed out admiringly one or two very finely finished buttonholes on jackets in the shop. Alex Cooke, who was then undercutter for Philip Parker, said, "ah, then we'll get so-and-so [a young woman of eastern European origin] to do the finishing for your suit." The result was excellent and for all subsequent jackets from Poole I reminded them of my appreciation of fine buttonholes and they continued to be delivered. But I have seen Poole suits from the same era with merely good workmanlike buttonholes.

[Concordia]

When I got my first jacket made back in college, the buttonhole experts in London were Greek-Cypriot women. I wonder how that has changed over time.

[hectorm]

That confirms my experience, hectorm, at least on my jackets from Poole.

I still have in my closets 3 Poole garments cut by Mr. Alan Alexander more than 20 years ago. All have nice buttonholes but, while the ones on the suits are perfunctory, the ones on the topcoat show off better craftsmanship. Back then I wasn't requesting specifically for hand-made buttonholes, so that was Poole´s default.
BTW, the best buttonholes I ever got in SR are on a peacoat by G&H. Probably made with extra care to withstand heavy use of the very large buttons.