The overcoat conundrum.

[Melcombe]

I can't help but think there's a nagging problem with the idea of an overcoat as a bespoke project.

At one level, there really shouldn’t be: an elegant complement to an excellent suit – what could be more desirable?

But bear with me.

My perceived 'problem' derives from 3 factors.

Firstly overcoats are seasonal wear in most climates. This might tend towards inviting more acceptance of compromise : if I'm only wearing it occasionally and taking it off when I arrive at my destination, why worry overly about its details?

Secondly, they tend to be bulky. Okay, I have a covert coat in a 10oz whipcord that is a featherweight (ideal for autumnal race meetings), but bulky means more wardrobe space which is not ideal if, say, you're living in a city centre apartment.

Thirdly, a good overcoat will last. Judging by some of the quality items that roll up on our favourite auction website, at 50 y/o, some coats will be edging into their prime (a bit like me. Ha!). Really 'though, has anyone outside Scandinavia ever worn out a good overcoat from new to the point of unwearability ?

My theory, so far as it goes, is that these considerations, for most, combine to make overcoat choices tend towards the, frankly, dull. Dark navy, sombre grey, single breasted, suitable for town, country, autumn, winter, spring, office, pub, church. One coat : hundreds of uses – so the choice has to cover all the bases.

This is all understandable when a good coat will dent the bank account to nearly the same extent as a suit, but it's a little sad when walking through parts of London at 6pm that all the chaps (and a good few of the ladies) look like they've joined some uniformed cult.

I've tried to play my part in the past. My last effort was a s/b covert style in an overchecked midweight John G Hardy jacketing, with a green velvet collar. I love it to bits, but I now perceive the need for a true winter coat. I did see Alden's New York overcoat – and have to admit that it has spurred me into action.

So a brief pre-Xmas visit to the tailor's the other day during the annual friends & clients round-up, delivering suitable (bottled) expressions of esteem, I broached the subject of a suitable coat. Several coating bunches later, I was a long way to confirming my hypothesis. Some lovely cloth, but generally as sombre as a Scots grave-digger on a sombre day. With a hangover.

By another route, however, I have now acquired 3m of 22oz yellowish / camel (old) Crombie. It has a herringbone self stripe in it too. The fabric is quite (but not overly) thick. Hmm. Well that won't be too sombre, will it?...

So a new range of (nice) problems, trying to work out what to do with it. I do quite like the idea of a single breasted town coat (placket fronted, top pocket and a chocolate brown velvet collar) but it might just lend itself to a British Warm? I've not seen anyone wearing one for years since they stopped being part of the Army's uniform. Or an Ulster maybe?

The other consideration is that I'm 1.81m tall and 95 Kg (5'11”, 210lbs) and particularly wide in the shoulder. I don't really want to look like a king size helping of yellow custard in my new coat, so any suggestions and guidance would be appreciated!

[davidhuh]

So a new range of (nice) problems, trying to work out what to do with it. I do quite like the idea of a single breasted town coat (placket fronted, top pocket and a chocolate brown velvet collar) but it might just lend itself to a British Warm? I've not seen anyone wearing one for years since they stopped being part of the Army's uniform. Or an Ulster maybe?

The other consideration is that I'm 1.81m tall and 95 Kg (5'11”, 210lbs) and particularly wide in the shoulder. I don't really want to look like a king size helping of yellow custard in my new coat, so any suggestions and guidance would be appreciated!

Dear Melcombe,

I just picked up a nice Raglan in LL flannel, it will be my spring / autumn overcoat to wear in town. Will post pictures these days.

Cheers, David

[alden]

Melcombe

I would make an Ulster/Polo....ie either Flaps/or Patch pockets.

The camel Polo coat could be worn, in the 1930s, at night over a Dinner suit. It looks great in the country, in the city and everywhere in between. If you only made one overcoat, it should be a Polo to cover all the bases splendidly.

I am 1.91m tall, 95 kgs with wide shoulders and don't feel at all like a Yellow fridge.

https://vimeo.com/17920654

Cheers

[Gilles Deleuze]

I love the Polo coat in the video, Michael. What are your thoughts on turn-back cuffs on overcoats? I'm currently thinking about issues related to the questions raised by Melcombe, and I'm wondering if including cuffs on my future coat would help make it more versatile, for wear with suits or just with a tweed jacket on weekends.

[alden]

I love the Polo coat in the video, Michael. What are your thoughts on turn-back cuffs on overcoats? I'm currently thinking about issues related to the questions raised by Melcombe, and I'm wondering if including cuffs on my future coat would help make it more versatile, for wear with suits or just with a tweed jacket on weekends.

Gilles,

Thank you.

I do not think the cuff, turn back or not, will have any influence on the versatility of the Polo or any other overcoat. I like the turn back on the Polo but would leave it off for anything else.

Cheers

[Melcombe]

Michael

Thanks indeed for that link. Needless to say, the polo is a corker. My late father had one in a lovat colour – I always liked the turned back cuffs.

I did come across this example of the British Warm:



I like the waisted shape of this one ^ (although I promise to do without the nonplussed expression and pointy stick).

Then again if it's good for :



- It's certainly good enough for me.

As I mentioned, I'm looking for a proper winter coat, so now I think I'm tending towards a double breasted example of any style. Again, drawing on another helpful LL idea, perhaps linen lining might work for warmth.

Regards, David

[alden]

HI David

The first picture shows a standard DB lapel and collar. Mr. Churchill wears a "reversible" or storm collar. I like the later for a British Warm because it is a short overcoat, a bit like a longish Reefer coat. The reversible seems to suit this more informal application better.

Prince Charles used to wear a British Warm in the 80s and I used to have pictures of it somewhere. What you have to determine is if you want the longer length, say just to the knee, which in my opinion is best these days. A really long overcoat can be drudgery to carry around.

Yes, line your coat in cashmere or linen or not at all if you want warmth.

Cheers

Michael

[smudger]

Interesting post, From my own experience I had exactly the same dilemma, would it be worth the extravagance?
Yes it was. I was explained by my cutter that my overcoat pattern would be cut from my suit jacket pattern.
Also I opted for a lighter weight Top-coat instead of a bulkier Overcoat. I selected a cloth from a Scabal bunch
(Quite a defined Navy Twill) I think it was 17ozs and the results were wonderful. I'm not a fan of the raglan sleeved overcoats
and find them unflattering, therefore I opted (after advice) to go with a standard Chesterfield style, cut just above
the knee. Perfect for when its not to cold and not to warm.

[Melcombe]

Well this decision making process has begun to follow its usual convoluted route…

The fabric has arrived (ta-daa!) and, as ever, the swatch gave little indication of what it looks like on a larger scale.

This is it (apols as ever for the rubbish photography)



It is very nice indeed and there’s a full 3m of it. It has cashmere in it, but some weight due to it being, presumably, mostly wool. What I’d not fully appreciated was that it is quite ‘spongy’ (and thick). It is also very supple and beautifully soft – all in a very nice way, but I really don’t think it will lend itself to a British Warm (which really should be Melton anyway) and indeed its bulk might make anything double breasted un peu de trop.

I suspect something in the Chesterfield style might be the optimum. I still want, as mentioned, something on the warmer side of average as I have lighter coats for less severe cold. I shall have to go through the lining options with my tailor – I don’t want to bulk it out and lose the chance for a well-shaped coat.

The ‘elyssian’(?) weave will very clearly show any stitching, so I’m wondering whether a ‘swelled edge’ is a good idea, at least on the collar. I think a fly front would also be best too.

I’m still havering over whether it needs a velvet collar, but I’d best make my mind up as it’s going to the tailor on Thursday.

I did find a photo of King George V reviewing troops with a fur collared coat : it looked very good, but the chances of shooting a bear in southern England are slim – this week at least…

[alden]

POLO

[Melcombe]

POLO

I have screen-shot from your Vimeo catwalk - and shall take with me on Thursday. I had meant to grow a beard over Christmas too, to complete the look (Duchess of Melcombe objected in strong terms...), but plenty of time later!

I just don't know about the patch pockets. If they're made internal does the polo become a paletot? (Polo-tot, even?). I do rather like the idea of a polo in the dressing gown style, (shawl collar, belted) as might have been originally worn between chukkas...

Laurence Olivier, as Max de Winter, was wearing a polo-ish version in Rebecca :


Not clear in that shot, but the coat is plainly a very soft fabric and quite thick. Best shots in the scene towards the end of the film (last 15 mins, where they are off to see the doctor in (?) Westbourne Grove). Lots of overcoats in the film and all below the knee. How we take central heating for granted these days!

Although George Sanders won the 'look-at-my-overcoat' prize in that event :


But then he was playing the complete bounder.

[alden]

Ha ha.. I have auditioned a few times as Max de Winter doing that Boathouse scene speech. ("I was carried away by her, enchanted by her...etc.") The lady casting agents love Max! And, yes, I do wear my Polo coat. I remember one audition last year when the agent remarked at my professionalism by saying, "and you came to the audition in costume too!" I was wearing Polo, Fedora, Flannel suit et al...I did not have the heart to tell her (or maybe I was frightened to say) that I was actually in normal dress mode.

Do the POLO with set sleeves (unlike Max's coat) and without patch pockets. You will never regret it.

Cheers from Manderlay

[davidhuh]

I'm not a fan of the raglan sleeved overcoats
and find them unflattering,

Dear Smudger,

This was my opinion, too - until two years ago. Three raglan coats later (and some other OC species as well), I have changed my mind.

The problem is finding a tailor who manages cutting and sewing raglan sleeves. This seems to be an art on the way to extinction. My judgement had more to do with the fact that I was unfamiliar with seeing a well tailored raglan than with reality itself. Chesterfields, Ulsters and Polo coats have remained a more common sight, and you may find decent ones even in RTW. But look back at old Esquire and Apparel of Arts pictures - the raglan used to be much more popular…

Cheers, David

[hectorm]

The fabric has arrived (ta-daa!) It has cashmere in it, but some weight due to it being, presumably, mostly wool. What I’d not fully appreciated was that it is quite ‘spongy’ (and thick). It is also very supple and beautifully soft – all in a very nice way, but I really don’t think it will lend itself to a British Warm (which really should be Melton anyway) and indeed its bulk might make anything double breasted un peu de trop.

Definitely not a British warm.
At 22oz, that color, and rather soft and "spongy", I think that the stars are aligned for a perfect classic Polo coat. By classic I mean double breasted and patch pockets, but on the trimmer side and with set sleeves to compensate for the already bulky and unstructured cloth (you´ll be wearing it mostly downtown and not stomping down divots).
If you own a Polo already, I would go for a shorter Chesterfield with fly front and chocolate brown -not black- velvet collar (I know the LL consensus is against those VCs but I like them anyway). On that cloth of yours such a Chesterfield would be one of a kind running no risk of getting lost amongst the "uniformed crowd".

[Melcombe]

... I would go for a shorter Chesterfield with fly front and chocolate brown -not black- velvet collar ...

Iacta alia est...

This is what I have plumped for - and not without a considerable amount of thought. My tailor also pointed out that the very directional nap of the cloth also constrains the cutting options - so no scope for mistakes! The collar is coming out of a fat quarter of silk velvet in a milk chocolate shade.

The real rationale is, on reflection, that I now want a British Warm as my "heavy" DB overcoat. This will have to be a future project when I can get hold of a length of good melton cloth.

Thank you all so much for your kind suggestions. I shall post a picture of the finished article when it arrives.

David