Robert Whitaker at Dege has made my shirts for a number of years now. I wouldn't use anyone else - the reason; fit. Quite simply, Robert is an exceptional shirt cutter. The usual range of cloth is available and I find the service to be perfectly fine if you are not in a desperate rush. We have had these discussions before about what constitutes a bespoke shirt. The cloth is cut in the shop and sewn, as far as I am aware, in the vicinity by people with sewing machines (i.e. not sewn by hand). It is not a case of measurements being sent to a factory, which is the usual criticism.Dr T wrote:Where are we with London shirt makers? Im in the market for some bespoke shirts what is todays recommendation please.Im after striped shirts with white collar and cuffs - they seem to be out of fashion at the moment.
Bespoke shirtmaker
Thanks - recommendation is aways the best approach. 
Impressions on Whitaker, who is enormously respected on the Row:
His cutting can be enormously flattering to the torso, much as good tailoring would be. Fit and comfort are also pretty good. I ended up moving on for two reasons.
One, he had a vision of collar height that simply wasn't squaring with the suits I was getting from A&S. Hitchcock cut coats with collars that wrapped hard around the neck, but weren't sitting very low. Dege's shirts (and others) simply didn't like poking above the edge, and Whittaker wouldn't experiment in that direction. To be fair, I wouldn't have pushed until Napoli su Misura tried it successfully, to my surprise. [I was able to use their findings to improve quality from several other shops, including Budd and Ascot Chang--and Frittolini
. Another reason to have more than one maker. 
]
The other reason was that his shop's operations were getting a little sloppy. Rumor on the Row had it that the Sultan of Somethingorother had ordered a million shirts for his army. For whatever reason, Whittaker was so slow to get new shirts out that he sometimes forgot the changes I'd asked him for on his last US trip. Also, buttons began to be sewn on badly, something that never happened before. Small stuff, but combined with good results elsewhere, they were reasons not to stress about going back. Those problems may have been solved by now, of course.
His cutting can be enormously flattering to the torso, much as good tailoring would be. Fit and comfort are also pretty good. I ended up moving on for two reasons.
One, he had a vision of collar height that simply wasn't squaring with the suits I was getting from A&S. Hitchcock cut coats with collars that wrapped hard around the neck, but weren't sitting very low. Dege's shirts (and others) simply didn't like poking above the edge, and Whittaker wouldn't experiment in that direction. To be fair, I wouldn't have pushed until Napoli su Misura tried it successfully, to my surprise. [I was able to use their findings to improve quality from several other shops, including Budd and Ascot Chang--and Frittolini
. Another reason to have more than one maker. ]The other reason was that his shop's operations were getting a little sloppy. Rumor on the Row had it that the Sultan of Somethingorother had ordered a million shirts for his army. For whatever reason, Whittaker was so slow to get new shirts out that he sometimes forgot the changes I'd asked him for on his last US trip. Also, buttons began to be sewn on badly, something that never happened before. Small stuff, but combined with good results elsewhere, they were reasons not to stress about going back. Those problems may have been solved by now, of course.
^^^
Certainly agree that is best to have and use a number of makers.
Keeps everyone on their toes. It is a simple fact that some makers will work better for you than others and if don't venture behind the familiar , you just won't know what's out there and if someone could do better for you.
You mentioned a shirt from NSM. I haven't seen any impressions here of their work other than your good experience with the shirt.
Any thoughts on NSM generally here on LL??
Certainly agree that is best to have and use a number of makers.
Keeps everyone on their toes. It is a simple fact that some makers will work better for you than others and if don't venture behind the familiar , you just won't know what's out there and if someone could do better for you.
You mentioned a shirt from NSM. I haven't seen any impressions here of their work other than your good experience with the shirt.
Any thoughts on NSM generally here on LL??
In lieu of anything else---
They are a regular shirtmaker of mine, and a less-regular maker of odd/casual trousers. In both cases, I moved them away from their Neapolitan comfort zone on fit, if not so much on style. Trousers are well-made-- some of the Ambrosi fingerprints on construction. Fit was done carefully, with tape measure and video, with all adjustments added in the next round. I asked for something akin to my Savile Row fit, with pleats-- what they came up with has a bit shorter rise but is generally pretty comfortable. I eventually asked for a little of the Ambrosi-ish taper, and while it measures differently, it feels and looks much the same.
Shirts, again, have a bit of the Jermyn Street/Charvet demi-mesure fit, at my request. Except for getting the angle on the collar right, however, their work was a complete surprise to me-- and a pleasant one. Fused collars, but very light, and just as nice under a sweater as with a jacket and tie. We negotiated a bit on cuff size-- it eventually came out very well, although even last year I had to negotiate for gauntlet buttons and some tightening of the French cuffs, which are not their main stock in trade.
Mina is not the evil genius in the back room-- but she gets reliable work from those who are. NsM used to be the best Neapolitan bespoke house that came to Boston. Now they stop at New York only.
Only major complaint on service is that they hardly ever return e-mails.
They are a regular shirtmaker of mine, and a less-regular maker of odd/casual trousers. In both cases, I moved them away from their Neapolitan comfort zone on fit, if not so much on style. Trousers are well-made-- some of the Ambrosi fingerprints on construction. Fit was done carefully, with tape measure and video, with all adjustments added in the next round. I asked for something akin to my Savile Row fit, with pleats-- what they came up with has a bit shorter rise but is generally pretty comfortable. I eventually asked for a little of the Ambrosi-ish taper, and while it measures differently, it feels and looks much the same.
Shirts, again, have a bit of the Jermyn Street/Charvet demi-mesure fit, at my request. Except for getting the angle on the collar right, however, their work was a complete surprise to me-- and a pleasant one. Fused collars, but very light, and just as nice under a sweater as with a jacket and tie. We negotiated a bit on cuff size-- it eventually came out very well, although even last year I had to negotiate for gauntlet buttons and some tightening of the French cuffs, which are not their main stock in trade.
Mina is not the evil genius in the back room-- but she gets reliable work from those who are. NsM used to be the best Neapolitan bespoke house that came to Boston. Now they stop at New York only.
Only major complaint on service is that they hardly ever return e-mails.
I agree, particularly when you add the -boring but ineludible- cost factor into the equation. Not only is it who can make the best shirt but also who can charge the most reasonable price for the specific quality you're looking for. Although some shirtmakers even offer a tiered price range for MTM, bespoke and full bespoke, I have found that it´s rather difficult -once you developed a personal relationship with them- to ask for their lesser product. It´s easier just to get out there and walk around the corner.uppercase wrote: It is a simple fact that some makers will work better for you than others and if don't venture behind the familiar , you just won't know what's out there and if someone could do better for you.
Yes, I think if anything NSM has a reputation for reliability.
They are serious people and Mina is solid as much as Dino, on the administrative side, is not.
Of the Neapolitans, I've always enjoyed working much more with the ladies of bespoke than the men.
I've found them more earnest sincere and professional than the cynical men.
But Napoli is always a crap shoot.
Many notions in this thread: multiple makers, globalization of styles, price points and even fused collars.
Without alot of time to write tonight, I would just say that I am in the school of restless discovery and adventure in bespoke and dress, and admire regionalism and it's character.
They are serious people and Mina is solid as much as Dino, on the administrative side, is not.
Of the Neapolitans, I've always enjoyed working much more with the ladies of bespoke than the men.
I've found them more earnest sincere and professional than the cynical men.
But Napoli is always a crap shoot.
Many notions in this thread: multiple makers, globalization of styles, price points and even fused collars.
Without alot of time to write tonight, I would just say that I am in the school of restless discovery and adventure in bespoke and dress, and admire regionalism and it's character.
Once again, I have to agree. I find the general attitude of Neapolitan men in the sartorial trade a bit off-hand and condescending. I should be culturally used to it, but the truth is that it gets tiring.uppercase wrote: Of the Neapolitans, I've always enjoyed working much more with the ladies of bespoke than the men. I've found them more earnest sincere and professional than the cynical men.
Looking back to my Naples pilgrimages, I realize that was one of the main reasons why after some bumping around Chiaia and the Spanish Quarter I ended up working with Gennaro and Luigi Solito. Skilled tailors but at the same time very professional and no nonsense.
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Sartorius_2
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I have heard that Mary Frittolini has now closed her business down permanently. Just wondered whether anyone can verify, or has any other news of her?
That is what she told me. Apparently, she wasn't in it for the money (or wasn't earning enough to make it interesting financially), and had some other issues that were taking priority.
What a shame, I was trying to get hold of her as well.
It's really extraordinary that, AFAIK, there isn't a shirtmaker who can be recommended without qualification. I last used Mary Frittolini and was pleased with the results, but I have not been able to get back to Paris for a few years. And now I discover that I won't be going!
Has anyone tried any of the other Neapolitans who feature heavily online? I'm thinking of D'Avino and Luca Avitabile?
While I know there are members who are delighted with Budd's work I believe I'm right in saying that Budd won't make button-down shirts, which means they're arguably not a bespoke maker, and inarguably limited in their usefulness to me.
Has anyone tried any of the other Neapolitans who feature heavily online? I'm thinking of D'Avino and Luca Avitabile?
While I know there are members who are delighted with Budd's work I believe I'm right in saying that Budd won't make button-down shirts, which means they're arguably not a bespoke maker, and inarguably limited in their usefulness to me.
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Sartorius_2
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Would love to try D'Avino but it seems he rarely visits London, and is not easy for me to justify a trip to Naples (Paris, on the other hand...).Manself wrote:Has anyone tried any of the other Neapolitans who feature heavily online? I'm thinking of D'Avino and Luca Avitabile?
Dear Manself,Manself wrote: While I know there are members who are delighted with Budd's work I believe I'm right in saying that Budd won't make button-down shirts, which means they're arguably not a bespoke maker, and inarguably limited in their usefulness to me.
Budd has made several button down shirts for me, the standard version and the hidden button down variety. What I'm not getting is hand sewn button holes. But the shirts fit
Cheers, David
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