New English Bespoke Shirtmaker: Wil Whiting

[bond_and_beyond]

And I would ask our experienced members to try and help out to. Let BB know by PM the names of shirt makers that you feel meet the proper requisites. Especially our Italian members...

Much obliged Michael. Any names members have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
BB

[hectorm]

Dear BB,
if your "weakest link" is your shirts, I think you're pretty strong with your Budd and T&A pieces
Notwithstanding, I have followed Michael's advice and sent you a PM with a couple of suggestions in Italy.

[ATW]

On a slightly different note, how do members feel about trying several shirtmakers with the intention not to continue having shirts made with them? E.g. As a test to find a preferred maker. Especially in reference to shirtmakers who don't request minimum orders and so lose money in developing your pattern and potentially travelling etc. I understand that people may not want to continue an expensive relationship that does not work for them, but it seems like bad faith to turn up to a shirtmaker with the intention to only order one shirt.

I've thought the decent thing to do was to order 5/6 shirts total regardless of if you want to keep them long term, as a kind of artificial minimum order.

[Concordia]

A worthy plan, but if Shirt 1.0 is really awful with no hope of improvement, you ought to be able to pull the plug. If the maker is good enough, that won't happen too often.

[alden]

I've thought the decent thing to do was to order 5/6 shirts total regardless of if you want to keep them long term, as a kind of artificial minimum order.

Absolutely not. Ordering one shirt proves you are serious and know what you are doing. Make them perform. Hold out the carrot with your presence.

Ordering five or six makes you look like a novice, a potential pigeon and who knows where that will lead....people do yield to temptation.

One shirt at a time, just like suits or jackets. Just because you are approaching a shirt project does not mean you throw out everything you have learned from your tailoring experience. Its the same process with a different garment. So don't suddenly get loose and creative. A good shirt will require as much if not more concentration than a suit.

Cheers

[alden]

A good shirt will require as much if not more concentration than a suit.

Yeah I am quoting myself. And I am doing it because it occurred to me to double down on this point.

There are a few very difficult operations in tailoring: making a great back on a jacket, making a good vest, and making a great trouser to name a few. When you have a tailor that can do these things superbly well for you, hold onto them because their skills are rare.

Making a great shirt is every bit as difficult as either or any of these tailoring operations. In fact, it is supremely difficult. And what occurred to me is that the two greatest shirt makers I have known in my life were probably the most sartorially talented people I have ever known. One of them made all of his own clothes as well as his shirts and you should have seen the jackets and overcoats! And he thought making a coat was a breeze. Shirts were a challenge, jackets were child’s play.

And when you think of it, working with thin cotton or linen cloth in the crafting of a perfect 3 dimensional reproduction of a human body that when worn will not interfere with, or mark the garments worn over it, is a masterful accomplishment. I used to have some photos of the fittings these masters did for me, painstaking work that rendered true master works of tailoring, any tailoring.

So I truly want to debunk the myth that crafting a shirt is a simple given requiring a minimum of skill, an undergarment after all, and of little importance. Nothing further from the truth. And that is why so many of you have great clothes and pitiful shirts: its damn hard too make one well. So hats off to the true Masters. My hat is off to them! And I realize what a privledge it has been to have known them and to be served by them.

Cheers

[hectorm]

I've thought the decent thing to do was to order 5/6 shirts total regardless of if you want to keep them long term, as a kind of artificial minimum order.

Shirtmakers know their business.
I knew one, who didn´t have a minimum order requirement. He used to say that his guarantee that you'll eventually would come back for more was that you had one wonderful shirt but he kept your pattern.
I know another (hint: in Long Island) who says that his reputation precedes him and asks for a minimum order of four thousand dollars, half up-front. I think he may not be so sure that holding your pattern will make you come back for more
If there is no minimum, order one. You'll have time to reward the shirtmaker if it's worth while.
If there is one, go with it after you have done your homework. It's standard practice.

[BESPOKE62]

A good shirt will require as much if not more concentration than a suit.

Yeah I am quoting myself. And I am doing it because it occurred to me to double down on this point.
Cheers

Good advice is like good medicine, it only works if your take it.

[alden]

Good advice is like good medicine, it only works if your take it.

The hilarious thing about this is that the clothing geeks who get a fever over tailoring details that no one on earth, other than fellow tailoring geeks, will ever notice, are happy to wear tawdry shirts that every single person they meet will see and remark right away. And the reason for this is that our eyes go straight to the upper chest and face of a person, right to the shirt/tie nexus. That is what people see. No one even notices our clothing beyond the pleasing general impression of unity it might offer. And no one will ever notice a coat whose balance is off .ooo4 microns. But they all will all notice a shirt that confers its wearer with pure Pa Kettle style.

I can remember when I first started the LL and got around a bit to meet some members and some of the self styled STYLE luminaries of the blogger variety. I would often think to myself, “Hmm, nice suit, beautiful shoes, could use a better barber, mouthwash…what a pity about the shirt and tie!” When this same reflection occurred about 95% of the time, I knew there was a big problem. I had done videos on the subject and written reams to no avail. And the resistance to truth has been constant to this very day. Funny, kinda.

Cheers

[bond_and_beyond]

Good advice is like good medicine, it only works if your take it.

The hilarious thing about this is that the clothing geeks who get a fever over tailoring details that no one on earth, other than fellow tailoring geeks, will ever notice, are happy to wear tawdry shirts that every single person they meet will see and remark right away. And the reason for this is that our eyes go straight to the upper chest and face of a person, right to the shirt/tie nexus. That is what people see. No one even notices our clothing beyond the pleasing general impression of unity it might offer. And no one will ever notice a coat whose balance is off .ooo4 microns. But they all will all notice a shirt that confers its wearer with pure Pa Kettle style.

I can remember when I first started the LL and got around a bit to meet some members and some of the self styled STYLE luminaries of the blogger variety. I would often think to myself, “Hmm, nice suit, beautiful shoes, could use a better barber, mouthwash…what a pity about the shirt and tie!” When this same reflection occurred about 95% of the time, I knew there was a big problem. I had done videos on the subject and written reams to no avail. And the resistance to truth has been constant to this very day. Funny, kinda.

Cheers

Alden's hard punches continue

Could I suggest you post a photo or photos of what you consider to be truly great shirts and photos of examples of the kind of horrible shirts you mention above?

It would be interesting I think for the membership to see what you're talkin' 'bout

BB

[alden]

It would be interesting I think for the membership to see what you're talkin' 'bout

Search.

There are libraries full of data here.

Cheers

[bond_and_beyond]

It would be interesting I think for the membership to see what you're talkin' 'bout

Search.

There are libraries full of data here.

Cheers

Yes, but not showing good and bad I don't think. Unless of course you mean photos of DoW, which I think we all know were deemed good..

BB

[bond_and_beyond]

Here's an idea:

Let's all post photos of men wearing shirts will collars that we deem good, and see if we can reach an agreed "minimum standard" for what constitutes a good / elegant shirt collar.

I will make my contribution in this regard presently.

BB

[alden]

JT_and_MK by The London Lounge, on Flickr

Kinda sums things up pretty well..

[alden]

Yes, but not showing good and bad I don't think. Unless of course you mean photos of DoW, which I think we all know were deemed good..

MV5BNDdmYzZmMWItNmQ0Ni00YjRkLWIyMjgtNGRiMmVjMmFlMjMzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTk2MzI2Ng@@._V1_UX214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_ (1) by The London Lounge, on Flickr

BB

Windsor's collars are a great model. I think that is where we all begin and then bring a touch of our own personalities to our own collar designs, modified to suit our stature, neck length and face shape.

DSC_8612 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

There are volumes of articles and posts on shirts and collars here. I went into great detail at one point to design collars of shirts for different statures and face shapes. There is an immense amount of material.

Its all here!

The kids of today just have to be spoon fed everything. Do a search!

Cheers