reasonably priced soft tailored suit

[bond_and_beyond]

I think Aston is on the mark here. The point is you can get a very good suit from GB but it might take a little bit more effort! But that is why you save GBP 2000!

BB

[marburyvmadison]

I think Aston is on the mark here. The point is you can get a very good suit from GB but it might take a little bit more effort! But that is why you save GBP 2000!

BB

This is a circular argument -- but why on earth can't you depend on the tailor to do his job well, sans input, regardless of the savings? If this analogy is applicable, I'd be telling the doctor how to do his job, and the client would be telling lawyers how to draft a document, not that they don't already

More knowledge is always a little better, but, we don't always know what we want, hence we rely on the professional for professional input. People on forums like these are a minority. The vast majority are in the 'real world', and rely on the professional, be it the doctor or the tailor to do their job to their utmost.

And Aston, a 1500 GBP budget doesn't mean you should be shown the door with a suit that looks like it's OTR , at least in my three instances My friends paid, if I'm not incorrect, 1500-ish pounds.

All this is circular, and has been hashed out a few pages before.

[bond_and_beyond]

I think Aston is on the mark here. The point is you can get a very good suit from GB but it might take a little bit more effort! But that is why you save GBP 2000!

BB

This is a circular argument -- but why on earth can't you depend on the tailor to do his job well, sans input, regardless of the savings? If this analogy is applicable, I'd be telling the doctor how to do his job, and the client would be telling lawyers how to draft a document, not that they don't already

More knowledge is always a little better, but, we don't always know what we want, hence we rely on the professional for professional input. People on forums like these are a minority. The vast majority are in the 'real world', and rely on the professional, be it the doctor or the tailor to do their job to their utmost.

And Aston, a 1500 GBP budget doesn't mean you should be shown the door with a suit that looks like it's OTR , at least in my three instances My friends paid, if I'm not incorrect, 1500-ish pounds.

All this is circular, and has been hashed out a few pages before.

The reason why it is circular is because there seems to be two things that you keep arguing: (i) that if one is inexperienced one will almost surely get an ill fitting suit from GB (like I said before I do not believe this is the case) and (ii) you stretch the argument way too far (for instance your doctor comment). My argument is that you will likely, despite inexperience, get a decent fitting suit from GB, and given the price point that is a risk I wouldn't hesitate to recommend taking. And even if you get an ill fitting suit you can take it back (if you even accepted it in the first place) and they'll redo. Like Aston says, they even made him a new suit.

Thus, they offer good value

BB

[aston]

Marburyvmadison

You mentioned earlier being sure there were other tailors out there who do a better job than GB for the same money.

Great!! I have no loyalty to GB, so please do share so that we can all benefit.

Thanks

[marburyvmadison]

One can take for instance, the interior construction of a garment -- the client wouldn't typically know how good it is, even the most discerning might be hard-pressed to tell, but look what a tailor chose to do in these garments, whether or not it'd be ever discovered.

[marburyvmadison]

Marburyvmadison

You mentioned earlier being sure there were other tailors out there who do a better job than GB for the same money.

Great!! I have no loyalty to GB, so please do share so that we can all benefit.

Thanks

Yes. Marginally more. Will post in a new topic sometime.

[alden]

However, as a more general point, would you not say that it is also fair to try to counter arguments that a certain tailor produces a "terrible fit" with the evidence one has in hand? Especially when the first argument is based on a post on another forum? If I had said nothing in this thread, then I fear that the criticism against Graham Browne would be fairly one sided, and the impression that this thread would leave to the casual reader was that Graham Browne is no good.

BB,

If you read alot of satisfied comments about a BMW car, you might be tempted to visit a dealership. Maybe some of the good reviews you read were from the son of the dealer, or advertising, but what does it matter...you will be getting the same exact BMW as the others.

Bespoke clothing is not at all the same. All real reviews, positive and negative, have to be taken with a grain of salt because the product is not industrial and therefore standardized.

You almost want to take the same care in choosing a tailor as you might a surgeon. Look for his training, experience and accreditation. If he has a few clients that have survived the knife, all the better. But bargain surgeons and bargain tailors are not always bargains.

That being said, most guys would do fine with RTW and they will also do fine with even the most unskilled sarto. Know your needs and choose accordingly.

Cheers

[bond_and_beyond]

One can take for instance, the interior construction of a garment -- the client wouldn't typically know how good it is, even the most discerning might be hard-pressed to tell, but look what a tailor chose to do in these garments, whether or not it'd be ever discovered.

Who made this and what point are you trying to make by posting these photos?

BB

[marburyvmadison]

I think Aston is on the mark here. The point is you can get a very good suit from GB but it might take a little bit more effort! But that is why you save GBP 2000!

BB

This is a circular argument -- but why on earth can't you depend on the tailor to do his job well, sans input, regardless of the savings? If this analogy is applicable, I'd be telling the doctor how to do his job, and the client would be telling lawyers how to draft a document, not that they don't already

More knowledge is always a little better, but, we don't always know what we want, hence we rely on the professional for professional input. People on forums like these are a minority. The vast majority are in the 'real world', and rely on the professional, be it the doctor or the tailor to do their job to their utmost.

And Aston, a 1500 GBP budget doesn't mean you should be shown the door with a suit that looks like it's OTR , at least in my three instances My friends paid, if I'm not incorrect, 1500-ish pounds.

All this is circular, and has been hashed out a few pages before.

The reason why it is circular is because there seems to be two things that you keep arguing: (i) that if one is inexperienced one will almost surely get an ill fitting suit from GB (like I said before I do not believe this is the case) and (ii) you stretch the argument way too far (for instance your doctor comment). My argument is that you will likely, despite inexperience, get a decent fitting suit from GB, and given the price point that is a risk I wouldn't hesitate to recommend taking. And even if you get an ill fitting suit you can take it back (if you even accepted it in the first place) and they'll redo. Like Aston says, they even made him a new suit.

Thus, they offer good value

BB

I won't even try to address those points because I never argued those things. But yes, their making him a new suit sounds like they're willing to address problems. I think I will tell my two friends to have their issues addressed when I meet up with them to take some pictures.

[bond_and_beyond]

However, as a more general point, would you not say that it is also fair to try to counter arguments that a certain tailor produces a "terrible fit" with the evidence one has in hand? Especially when the first argument is based on a post on another forum? If I had said nothing in this thread, then I fear that the criticism against Graham Browne would be fairly one sided, and the impression that this thread would leave to the casual reader was that Graham Browne is no good.

BB,

If you read alot of satisfied comments about a BMW car, you might be tempted to visit a dealership. Maybe some of the good reviews you read were from the son of the dealer, or advertising, but what does it matter...you will be getting the same exact BMW as the others.

Bespoke clothing is not at all the same. All real reviews, positive and negative, have to be taken with a grain of salt because the product is not industrial and therefore standardized.

You almost want to take the same care in choosing a tailor as you might a surgeon. Look for his training, experience and accreditation. If he has a few clients that have survived the knife, all the better. But bargain surgeons and bargain tailors are not always bargains.

That being said, most guys would do fine with RTW and they will also do fine with even the most unskilled sarto. Know your needs and choose accordingly.

Cheers

But what about value for money? If a GBP 1000 suit has a fit that is 95% of a SR suit for 30% of the price then certainly that is good value? (assuming that 95% consitutes a general good fit).

BB

[marburyvmadison]

One can take for instance, the interior construction of a garment -- the client wouldn't typically know how good it is, even the most discerning might be hard-pressed to tell, but look what a tailor chose to do in these garments, whether or not it'd be ever discovered.

Who made this and what point are you trying to make by posting these photos?

BB

Who made it is irrelevant. The point I'm making, you mean you don't see it? -- Is that even somebody with no knowledge, should have the confidence that the tailor would do his utmost best and not let him out of the door looking that bad, regardless whether or not he is found out. I really need to get pictures of my friends' suits so you know it's not just that SF chap.

*We are not talking stylistic issues here, rather, fundamental issues of fit.

I'm no tailor btw.

[cathach]

There's a lot of handwork in that coat front anyway, all those pad stitches have been done by hand.

[bond_and_beyond]

Who made it is irrelevant. The point I'm making, you mean you don't see it? -- Is that even somebody with no knowledge, should have the confidence that the tailor would do his utmost best and not let him out of the door looking that bad. I really need to get pictures of my friends' suits so you know it's not just that SF chap.

*We are not talking stylistic issues here, rather, fundamental issues of fit.

I'm no tailor btw.

I am no tailor either, but I assume what you are trying to show is that some tailors take short cuts with the interior construction of a coat. That I think no one would argue against, but I am unsure how this relates to the quality of GB's offering (unless those photos are of a GB suit).

BB

[marburyvmadison]

Who made it is irrelevant. The point I'm making, you mean you don't see it? -- Is that even somebody with no knowledge, should have the confidence that the tailor would do his utmost best and not let him out of the door looking that bad. I really need to get pictures of my friends' suits so you know it's not just that SF chap.

*We are not talking stylistic issues here, rather, fundamental issues of fit.

I'm no tailor btw.

I am no tailor either, but I assume what you are trying to show is that some tailors take short cuts with the interior construction of a coat. That I think no one would argue against, but I am unsure how this relates to the quality of GB's offering (unless those photos are of a GB suit).

BB

No. You're missing the forest for the trees. I'm saying, gosh, what haven't I said already? Read the post you quoted. Nobody knows how the interior will look, but look at that sheer dedication? And on novices, 'tailors' might gain nothing from spending a bit of extra time and effort to fit somebody properly, but should that matter to the outcome of the coat, with respect to fundamental issues of fit?

[marburyvmadison]

There's a lot of handwork in that coat front anyway, all those pad stitches have been done by hand.

Indeed. A tailor from this forum.